[RD] Diversity of Safe Spaces
- Thread starter BvBPL
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- safe spaces
I've been here for over 10 years, am one of the very few women OT posters who has been here that long, and trust me, I know sexist posts when I see them.
May i point out something?
BVB has made two posts in this thread, #1 and #5.
The entire rest of the thread is the ten of you spending 5 pages, shall we say, debating your opposition.
That opposition, apparently concists of...
...ADH.
You can see what's going on here?
BVB has made two posts in this thread, #1 and #5.
The entire rest of the thread is the ten of you spending 5 pages, shall we say, debating your opposition.
That opposition, apparently concists of...
...ADH.
You can see what's going on here?
aelf
Ashen One
So it's not about right or wrong but about how many people are in the two camps?
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
Of course. What is and what is not right is never in question because I am always right. The real question is how many other people are also right.
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
The right is always right, because it is right, right?
aelf
Ashen One
Well, if you are right, then I guess you have ADH as well.
No, not at all.
My point was more about overshooting the target in a potentially wasteful fashion.
You know, the thing about cannons and sparrows.
christos200
Never tell me the odds
I personally believe in freedom of speech and that all opinions should be challenged and debated. Safe spaces seem to be more about echo chambers and shutting down free speech than anything else, so I believe that they are counter-productive. Great ideas are fostered through debate, not censorship. I also question the notion that 'non mainstream' ideas should be censored; we have free speech to protect such controversial ideas and discuss them, not to ask if the weather is fine.
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
So when you hear “safe space” you think of Okeke’s first definition, that a safe space is a place free of other people’s perspectives.
If someone wanted to discuss with you the concept of Okeke’s second definition, that of a space where discussions are expected to be in a respectful manner, what would be a good way to approach you about that?
"Intellectual" safe spaces are ridiculous.
However, depending on venue, I can see something akin to them developing. For example, if someone forms a group to talk about LGBT issues and one particular person or group of people insist that there aren't any - well, kick them out, exactly the same situation as a restaurant has the right to kick out a rude or disruptive customer.
Not because they are afraid of confrontation, but because it isn't the place for it.
However, depending on venue, I can see something akin to them developing. For example, if someone forms a group to talk about LGBT issues and one particular person or group of people insist that there aren't any - well, kick them out, exactly the same situation as a restaurant has the right to kick out a rude or disruptive customer.
Not because they are afraid of confrontation, but because it isn't the place for it.
Hmmm... Tim just said something in the "Why white Lives" thread that is making me wonder if the need for safe spaces has any causal connection to the anti-bullying movement... cause when I was a kid 
trolls and provocateurs just got their asses kicked... or if they were the bullies, they eventually got jumped, and as a result got their asses kicked. But now you don't jump/roach-stomp the troll that shows up to your meeting, that's a passe way of handling things... so you need a safe space to avoid them.
I have to admit that I have had mixed feelings about safe spaces... the macho-macho man in me says that's panty waist stuff... but it's never been much more developed than that in my mind. It's nice to hear all of you guys thoughts on it... in our nice safe space
trolls and provocateurs just got their asses kicked... or if they were the bullies, they eventually got jumped, and as a result got their asses kicked. But now you don't jump/roach-stomp the troll that shows up to your meeting, that's a passe way of handling things... so you need a safe space to avoid them.I have to admit that I have had mixed feelings about safe spaces... the macho-macho man in me says that's panty waist stuff... but it's never been much more developed than that in my mind. It's nice to hear all of you guys thoughts on it... in our nice safe space
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2010
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You might be onto something. With so much communication online and "repercussion free" being d-bags to each other isn't as likely to be savagely deterred. But the bullying is still real, just less accountable. So like begging Twitter or Blizzard or The Mods to "fix it" for you by silencing the irritant, you do the same thing with your University instead of learning to stand up for yourself, in the physical moment, when the pain's about to get real and dirty? Holding productive anger in front of who you're angry at is a difficult skill.
Seems like that's an overstatement. But is the shift in the overall feel in that direction?
Seems like that's an overstatement. But is the shift in the overall feel in that direction?
No, I think this is on track... because online you can establish private rooms and block/ignore people and on and on... There are ways to avoid folks that upset, bother, scare etc you. Conversely the "old way" in online terms would be what? To start relentlessly counter-trolling(?), cussing out, teaming up on the disruptive/unwanted person until you just shouted them down? But of course you will be heavily infracted (or banned) on virtually any forum for that kind of thing... so its back to the safe space. There's no alternative, really, online at least.
And maybe more and more people are wanting their RL world to be more like their online world.
aelf
Ashen One
Well, when people cuss out or shout down real-life trolls, they get accused of attacking free speech and wanting safe spaces.
You can't win with conservatives - they just wanna say what they wanna say but other people can't.
You can't win with conservatives - they just wanna say what they wanna say but other people can't.
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
When people cuss each other out or shout each other down, the cussers and shouters are not building a space where discussions can be had in a respectful manner. That fails Okeke's second definition of safe spaces,
You seem to have missed the crucial element, the existence of trolls. Their intrusion into such a space already constitutes a delegitimizing of the "space where discussions can be had in a respectful manner".
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
Abandoning the principle of respect after another party violates that principle makes me wonder if the principle was ever that important to begin with.
Getting the community you want is never about achieving it and then having it for all time. It is always about building it up. You are always building communities, you never just have them because as soon as you stop building them and reinforcing them they fade away. The same is true with principles. Principles are never achieved, they are always in the process of being worked towards.
Getting the community you want is never about achieving it and then having it for all time. It is always about building it up. You are always building communities, you never just have them because as soon as you stop building them and reinforcing them they fade away. The same is true with principles. Principles are never achieved, they are always in the process of being worked towards.
