Do Game Consumers Expect Faulty Games?

I don't think regulation is the right approach to this problem. The US government doesn't test and authorize the sale of any consumer goods other than food or drugs for the most part. That approach will only drive up costs while overly stifling the industry which demands fast development to meet the window of opportunity.

But what I think are clearly needed are far better consumer protection laws which do not allow software vendors to so cavalierly dismiss justified consumer complaints, as they now do. As BvBPL hinted at, we also need an independent means to track bugs and design issues so that consumers can be far better informed by some method that is not essentially owned or controlled by the computer industry. As it stands now, the best we can usually hope for is that the vendor will fix the bugs the reviewers invariably find while playing beta versions to write their articles for the gaming magazines and internet sites.

In response to the OP, yes, game consumers now currently do expect faulty games which they really have no legal recourse. The best one can now possibly hope for is a refund, and that will only occur if you spend far more time and effort than is economically feasible to do in most cases. This problem is not limited to the gaming industry. It is prevalent in virtually all of the consumer software on the market. And it won't really change until the consumers have far better recourse than they now do.
 
Well in the UK, you can take anything back to the shop for a refund, I've never had a problem taking software back (even PC software, which is easily copied). And distance selling laws in the UK are even more generous, since you can't even see the physical product before paying for it. Legal protections only count when the product is faulty, though, but most shops will still take it back even if you change your mind.

Indeed, in practice, most retailers go well beyond their statutory obligations when it comes to returns. Even if you leave it for 2 or 3 months, you can still sometimes get it exchanged or store credit.
 
That alone would likely appreciably change things in this country.
 
I don't think we should get too held up on the only fault in a video game being a bug. Traditionally, a bug is a negative unintended problem in the game. This contrasts with a misfeature which is an intended behavior that causes a problem. Faults in video games can exist as bugs, misfeatures, somewhere on the spectrum between the two, or somewhere else all together.

I didn't know any of the things I listed befosre I bought the flat. I knew the big things, like, "is the building structurally sound?", "does the person I'm buying from have a legal right to sell it?", and "is there central heating?", but the smaller bits and bobs, like the specific features of the central heating, or even whether or not the previous owner was going to leave the furniture or not, I only found out after I had moved in. Those are the sorts of things you only find out after you move in, like whether the neighbours play loud music, or whether the lifts are always broken.

I don't think your comparison between your flat and a video game holds water because a piece of real property is fundamentally different from standardized personal good. Unless it was just built as a series of identical units, your flat is unique. Even if it was previously built as one of a series, it is likely still unique because some of the fixtures have likely been changed and the circumstances of the environment is likely different. The video game, in contrast, is a standardized piece of software that is the same regardless of who consumes it. It is a different animal all together.
 
Again though, the principle upon which you object to games being released with bugs is that the consumer is paying for something that is has several minor annoyances that, while not rendering the thing completely unfit for purpose or useless, reduce the overall quality of the thing, or reduce the utility or enjoyment that the user derives from the thing. I don't see how the distinction, that a flat is unique and that the price is bespoke (and therefore contains the possibility that the seller has factored in such flaws before offering it at that price), is relevant to this principle. In both cases, I am paying for something that is has several minor annoyances that, while not rendering the thing completely unfit for purpose or useless, reduce the overall quality of the thing, or reduce the utility or enjoyment that the user derives from the thing.

Indeed, the seller of the game might well have factored possible bugs into the price before offering it; the buyer of the game no doubt factors in the possibility of bugs existing before agreeing to the price. The extra development costs (and lost revenue) associated with fixing the bugs before releasing it for sale might have required the developer to retail it at a much higher price. And on the other side, the buyer might be willing to pay a premium (either financial or by way of of reduced quality) for a game released early, rather than wait until the bugs are fixed. Bugs in games often only affect a small percentage of users, users in a certain region, users with certain hardware / conflicting software, users who play the game in a certain way, etc etc. To that extent, the game, like the flat, is "unique", and not at all standardised. This, though, I still maintain, is irrelevant to the principle upon which you object to accepting games with bugs in it.

At any rate, I for one am happy to "accept" that a game might be released with bugs, insofar as I factor this possibility into my purchasing decision. I usually don't buy games on release day, for this reason (though I rushed out to buy FIFA 13 a few weeks ago to play multiplayer, buggy though it is).
 
Do game companies factor bugs into their price for the games they sell? I've never seen evidence of that. The prices seem to be set by platform and demand mostly.
 
As I said in my edit (which I assume came too late for your reply to take cognizance of), if they had to fix the bugs in it, then they would have to raise their revenues to cover the extra development costs somehow. The release date is a balance between the revenue lost due to consumers refusing to buy a product with bugs in it, and the cost of fixing those bugs. The fewer bugs in the product, the more people will buy it (since reviews will be much better, word of mouth from release-day sales, and so on). But that will cost them money. So yes, they already take those things into consideration when deciding when to release. It's true that they wouldn't charge more or less due to the number of bugs remaining -- their price will probably be fixed and based on recuperating development costs as quickly as possible. But revenue is a function of price and quantity: if they can't change the price, then the determination will be based on quantity. C.f. markup pricing theory, where the price is a fixed % of cost, and changes in demand are responded to by changes in supply, not price.

All of this, though, is based on the idea that consumers won't buy a game if it has too many bugs in it. I.e. that buyers take into account bugs (both known and the possibility of unknown) when determining whether to buy the product. I don't think there is a market failure; the only regulation you need is the ability to return a product after purchase, if the bugs are crippling enough to consider "faults".
 
I don't see how the distinction, that a flat is unique and that the price is bespoke (and therefore contains the possibility that the seller has factored in such flaws before offering it at that price), is relevant to this principle. In both cases, I am paying for something that is has several minor annoyances that, while not rendering the thing completely unfit for purpose or useless, reduce the overall quality of the thing, or reduce the utility or enjoyment that the user derives from the thing.

It is different because the items purchased are fundamentally different. Real property isn't personal property and completely different regulatory and legal rules dictate the sale of real and personal property. You can make analogies between the two, but such comparisons will ever only be analogies as best. The two types of purchases are different per se.

And on the other side, the buyer might be willing to pay a premium (either financial or by way of of reduced quality) for a game released early, rather than wait until the bugs are fixed. Bugs in games often only affect a small percentage of users, users in a certain region, users with certain hardware / conflicting software, users who play the game in a certain way, etc etc. To that extent, the game, like the flat, is "unique", and not at all standardised. This, though, I still maintain, is irrelevant to the principle upon which you object to accepting games with bugs in it.

At any rate, I for one am happy to "accept" that a game might be released with bugs, insofar as I factor this possibility into my purchasing decision. I usually don't buy games on release day, for this reason (though I rushed out to buy FIFA 13 a few weeks ago to play multiplayer, buggy though it is).

You're assuming that some video game buyers are rational consumer weighing out the good and bad of a purchase. While no doubt this is true to some extent, I would argue that it is probably not the general rule. Instead, most video game purchases are likely made based upon impulse with little consideration or as gifts with possibly no consideration from a party informed of the merits and flaws of a particular game. This contrasts with a piece of real estate that is nearly always purchased after a deliberate and rational consideration of the acquisition.
 
As I said in my edit (which I assume came too late for your reply to take cognizance of), if they had to fix the bugs in it, then they would have to raise their revenues to cover the extra development costs somehow.
The edit wasn't there when I replied. Thanks for the elaboration.

I don't think there is a market failure; the only regulation you need is the ability to return a product after purchase, if the bugs are crippling enough to consider "faults".

We do not have this regulation in the US. We need it. I'd also like to point out that you can return most products in a reasonable time if you aren't satisfied or for many other reasons - and not only because they are faulty or 'bugged'. You can't do that with software by and large in the US. Even when it's clearly defective (and I don't mean the disc is broken, I mean software faults. And now that I think about it, I'm not sure if you could return a broken disc - I guess you might get an exchange) you have no real recourse to get a return or refund.
 
It is different because the items purchased are fundamentally different. Real property isn't personal property and completely different regulatory and legal rules dictate the sale of real and personal property. You can make analogies between the two, but such comparisons will ever only be analogies as best. The two types of purchases are different per se.
But all you're telling me is that they are different. You're not telling me why these differences render "yes, a flat" an invalid answer to this question: "would you accept any other good that had to be fixed after your purchase?" When you buy a property it's 99% caveat emptor; that's why you pay £1,000 in legal fees and £500 in survey fees to get a professional to check it out. The regulations on selling a property really don't apply to things like whether the neighbours are noisy or whether the doors are sticky, so I'm not sure why "a flat" is not a valid answer to your question.

And in any case, a lot of the things I complained about I could have bought after I bought the property. The fridge's annoying humming, the sofa's cushions, the coffee table's silly proportions... And the TV, amongst other things, I did buy myself. It's too big for the living room really, it doesn't need to be that big, but I still bought it knowing that there was the possibility that it would be annoyingly big. That I'd have to swivel it around whenever I open the windows in the living room.

You're assuming that some video game buyers are rational consumer weighing out the good and bad of a purchase.
I'm really not assuming that all consumers are perfectly rational. I am not assuming anything at all about consumers -- I'm not even assuming that they are rational at all. They could all be monkeys or children, or buying things based on the roll of a dice for all I care. All I'm assuming is that the pricing mechanism in a free market is functioning: the pricing mechanism mops up things like lack of perfect information, risk associated with newly released products, "irrational" demand for certain products (e.g. based on brand, fancy packaging, etc), and all the other stuff that demand might hypothetically be based on (even the toss of a coin - who hasn't made a decision on a coin toss?). All I'm assuming is that the price of a product is the point at which supply meets demand. What that demand is based on is really quite irrelevant: that people want things is a fact; that other people supply things is a fact; the point where they meet ought to be the price, in a functioning market.

In order to justify intervention in a market, there has to be an identifiable market failure, so that the price is not the point where they meet. We know that risk can be "priced in": this is not a market failure, this is people responding to risk by reducing demand (due to what is actually an irrational cognitive bias called risk aversion...). What is the market failure here? Publishers explicitly do not advertise games to be bug free, so the market failure cannot be false advertising. So what is it? And why is it pertinent to computer games, and not to the myriad of other purchasing decisions we make based on (a) limited information, (b) possibility of flaws, (c) possibility that the product is disappointing, etc...

This is a matter of economics though; it's quite tangential to the original question, which is whether people buy things knowing that they might contain non-critical flaws in them. I sure do.

While no doubt this is true to some extent, I would argue that it is probably not the general rule. Instead, most video game purchases are likely made based upon impulse with little consideration or as gifts with possibly no consideration from a party informed of the merits and flaws of a particular game. This contrasts with a piece of real estate that is nearly always purchased after a deliberate and rational consideration of the acquisition.
How is this different from any exchange in a free market? Yes, some people put more thought into purchasing decisions than others. So what? Bully for them I say. When I buy something, I know that there is a possibility that it isn't quite what I expect, even if it is as advertised, in terms of quality, functionality, or enjoyment. I think it's unrealistic to expect every purchase I make to be absolutely exactly what I wanted and not in any way disappointing.

So far, whenever someone has answered the question "would you accept any other good that had to be fixed after your purchase?" with some reasonable answer, all you've done is say "no, that's different to a computer game". Well, first of all, yes, it is different to a computer game, but not in a way that makes the answer invalid or irrelevant. Secondly, we're just answering your question! You're asking us our opinion on buying computer games with bugs in them, then saying, "no, my opinion is different". Thirdly, for us (or for me, anyway), buying a fridge or a flat with flaws in it really is no different to buying a computer game with flaws in it. It doesn't matter to me whether there are legal regulations around property purchases that aren't present in computer game purchases -- for me, both things are the same. When I buy a fridge, I buy it in the knowledge that it might have annoying flaws, like loud humming. When I buy a computer game, I buy it in the knowledge that it might have annoying flaws, like bugs. There is no difference to me.
 
Apropos the motivation to fix the game following release: would you accept any other good that had to be fixed after your purchase?
TV shows, comic books, tabletop games.
Tabletop games would go out of business in a week if they actually released "working" products.
 
TV shows, comic books, tabletop games.
Tabletop games would go out of business in a week if they actually released "working" products.

I take it you drive a Toyota and don't mind having an electrical short run you into a wall...

I just think that the current attitude of "if it is REALLY broken,we'll fix it..."is BS and it needs to be fixed...

why are all the games nowadays not only being dumbed down,but glitching/needing patching to be ran normally?
 
I'd invoke Sturgeon's Law for this thread, and then conclude with one portion being connected with the other portion in a "if you remove this, then you also remove this" sort of way.

9/10 failures. 1/10 success rate. Worth the effort.*

*For games. Probably less tolerable for enterprise-oriented software.

I take it you drive a Toyota and don't mind having an electrical short run you into a wall...

I just think that the current attitude of "if it is REALLY broken,we'll fix it..."is BS and it needs to be fixed...

why are all the games nowadays not only being dumbed down,but glitching/needing patching to be ran normally?
I take it you sue the manufacturer every time you open the can of soda and the fizz splashes you in the face?

I was merely making the point that Blizzard has a vested interest to promptly fix bugs due to being a subscription game.
It's a good thing the Cataclysm struck STV when it did, else that swimming goblin Gazban would still be there, preventing people from completing a really nice quest chain. :mischief:
 
Except in times where the source code could literally be printed on a couple of pages and the game mechanics were so simple that you can run into every combination of situations during testing.
 
Yeah but there'd still be bugs like overflows when you scored too many points or your name is too long. far moreso back then than now.
 
Yeah you can't generally return opened software in the US as a rule of thumb.

I have done it (certain games that require activation probably not), and got store credit.
 
Yeah but there'd still be bugs like overflows when you scored too many points or your name is too long. far moreso back then than now.
That was more a problem of severely limited memory and equally limited capacity of the developers to anticipate the dedication/craziness of their customers :D
 
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