colontos
King
How does the pledge regulate religion? Answer: it doesn't.
Cry me a river.
Do we need to pledge of alliegence in the U.S? Should it be modified?
- Thread starter Xanikk999
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How does the pledge regulate religion? Answer: it doesn't.
Cry me a river.
It's endorsement of a particular type of religion.
No it isn't.
I didn't question whether they should or not, I was pointing out how they try to pretend they're accomodating for changing beliefs, but (a) it's still the Christian God in practice, and (b) they try to include a minority of non-Christians to try to look "multicultural" or inclusive, whilst ignoring all the non-religious people.
I'm in the UK, over here they try to pretend they include non-Christians too. I'm not sure if they'll actually kick people out like the US ones seem to.
Well again, I'm in the UK, and I guess things are different here.
In the UK, the religion bits are a minority part of anything to do with the Scouts. I joined the Scouts as a progression to being in the cubs, so at that age, although I didn't believe in God, I didn't really understand all the issues about what organisations stood for, and by the time I started to realise, making a statement and leaving something you enjoyed and had friends in because of the prayers wasn't something I was going to do. (Also in the UK, we are used to prayers daily in state schools too...)
Obviously as an adult I'd be mad to go anywhere near anything to do with the Scouts - but then I'd probably be a rebellious kid if I was back at school being forced to pray every morning. But when you're only 11 years old and told what to do, it's a different matter.
Edit: Bill3000 explains it well.
skadistic
Caomhanach
So my rights and feelings don't mater? Is it because I don't worrish non-exsistant gods? Maybe when christians have their rights trampled on I should be a prick about it too.
colontos
King
No. Live with it.
Rather have you live with the complete lack of religion in society, really.
skadistic
Caomhanach
I feel sorry for you.
Maimonides
Emperor
It's not. If it's being recited & you don't agree with it, don't recite it.
Abolutely, totally & unbelievably wrong.
U.S. Scouting includes religious awards for dozens of religions & belief systems. Reverent is one of the Scout Laws. An atheist took this to the Supreme Court, but lost.
Right.
It doesn't in it's original form. The form with "under G-d" added is clearly an attempt to infringe on the rights of atheists, agnostics, animists & polytheists. I believe in G-d, but I don't try to impose my beliefs on others.
It is sad that it's so often forgotten that many of America's 1st European immigrants were Christians that were fleeing persecution from other Christians. If American Christians had a better memory, we wouldn't have so many issues like this today.
Fugitive Sisyphus
Escape Artist
If we have a pledge, the words 'under God' should be taken out. I don't really care that much but saying 'under God' is, at best, wasted verbiage.
Now whether or not school children should have to pledge allegiance every morning is another exciting debate.
Now whether or not school children should have to pledge allegiance every morning is another exciting debate.
I know, I feel dumb for saying that, and I corrected myself later. :/
Just keep it. Some people can recite it if they want to, others don't have to, or they can leave "under god" out, or they can stay seated, or whatever. I don't care. I just don't see why we should do away with the pledge just because a few cinical, jaded, fashionably atheistic, quasi-communists feel offended by the very conception of nationhood the pledge represents.
Keep in mind how many flags were flown overhead after September 11th, and how enthusically people recited not only the pledge, but heaven fotbid "God Bless America." They meant a little more than an outdated concept huh?
Another terrorist attack or major war will bring back the popularity of the pledge in its current form, that is certain.
Keep in mind how many flags were flown overhead after September 11th, and how enthusically people recited not only the pledge, but heaven fotbid "God Bless America." They meant a little more than an outdated concept huh?
Another terrorist attack or major war will bring back the popularity of the pledge in its current form, that is certain.
That is so illogical, since it would demonstrate that God had lost another round to Allah.
Why would be fighting for a nation under a God that can't or refuses to protect us from terrorist attacks?
Saying or not saying what you want is more in line with the values of freedom and democracy than parroting the offcial line.
CaptainF
The Professional Poster
The pledge is crap.
Ten Characters!!!111!1111
Ten Characters!!!111!1111
"Saying or not saying what you want is more in line with the values of freedom and democracy than parroting the offcial line."
Which is what I said in the opening sentence. Do or say whatever you like, but don't take it [the pledge] away because you don't care or think it's important.
"Why would be fighting for a nation under a God that can't or refuses to protect us from terrorist attacks?"
If nothing else, to untimately protect what you hold dear on a national scale. Even the non-religious can appreicate that. No?
Which is what I said in the opening sentence. Do or say whatever you like, but don't take it [the pledge] away because you don't care or think it's important.
"Why would be fighting for a nation under a God that can't or refuses to protect us from terrorist attacks?"
If nothing else, to untimately protect what you hold dear on a national scale. Even the non-religious can appreicate that. No?
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