do you like the forum split?

[Antilogic]

So consider the FC the 'Red Diamond' forum, where serious discussion is encouraged. Yes, it will be slow. Yes, it won't see much traffic. But the discussions in there will evolve into a lesser moderated area as people realize that limited trolling and flaming is tolerated and spam can be largely be ignored. And those that do cross a line either have the posts deleted or are simply removed from the forums for a period of time.

While I see what is being attempted, the trouble is many OT threads switched character midway through the thread, and sometimes repeatedly over the course of a week. The OP is just a starting point.

There is a ton of complaining now about PC, and it probably won't go away if threads are being moved back and forth and PCs regularly fluctuate up and down based on whichever thread gets moved.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Ever since becoming a mod in 2009, dealing with OT has done nothing but get harder and more time consuming. The site grew and the polarization that materialized in society and across the world took firmer shape in OT and even among the moderation staff. What was possible to accept as permissible in 2007 was not in 2010. While such an idea for splitting the forum is not original with me, Mathilda and i hatched a plot to do something similar a few years ago. It failed and eventually, showed up as the RD effort. My purpose then and now in supporting such efforts were two fold. First, to create a place where fun and banter were largely unrestricted and having fun took precedent over discussion content. And second, to fix the ongoing staff conflicts over what was acceptable to post. With such a forum split, moderating is simpler because each of the two forums has pretty clear guidelines for moderating and all the mods can agree on when to step in and when not to. This arrangement allows all the mods to be far more consistent and at the same time moderate less (which is one of my goals).

Everyone likes to complain about change that they did not participate in, and it is easy to find details you don't like: bad date; poor implementation, bad names, two new forums and a closed old forum, sassy mods, etc. etc. But I think you are missing the point. This is the path to consistent and readily anticipated moderation standards, which has been a major complaint for a long time. In addition you now have a place with very loose limits so that fun can lead the way. This is real change.

Is it fixed in place? Not at all. I expect that Science and Tech will soon be folded into the OT discussion forum expanding its draw. I would expect that over the next 90 days or so we will all find out if it was successful and if needed, make changes.

I think it has been a glorious success already. The FT threads are a joy to read and to contribute to. B1tch and moan all you like, but while you do so, please don't forget to enjoy the new found freedom to have some fun too.

 

[North King]

Dude, when people complain about details with the specific caveat that they like the whole thing, it's a positive thing. Maybe you could just look into the details and see if fixing them wouldn't be a good idea. Stuff like names is clearly not a very involved problem.

 

[sophie]

I'm not complaining at all about the two forums part of it. I too am enjoying the looser feel of the OT-JR forum. I'd just like to get some reward in the shape of pc for all the posting I'm doing in the JR forum.

 

[Skwink]

Why is there no PC in JR? The majority of us want it, and it doesn't hurt a single thing or make moderating any harder. If the Admins would just give us PC than half of our criticisms would be gone.

 

[Agent327]

No wonder there is an outcry--that wasn't the fix we were looking for!

Actually it doesn´t seem to ´fix´ anything.

Love the new forum, by the way.

 

[Maniacal]

I have no problem with having two forums and overall I think it will work out great.

However, as has been mentioned, the implementation was poor with a terrible release date and confusing mixed messages (some of which were not befitting of the staff at all) from several staff members.

 

[Mise]

I also endorsed the roll-out on April 1st. Honestly, I thought it would be funny as a reverse not-prank mind blowing prank that would make future pranks that much better as you will forever not know if we are serious or not. Haha. Apparently it did not go over well with some of you, and I am sorry about that, but ultimately, this is a website we visit to procrastinate/hang out with internet friends/rant/waste time on, so in the big picture, hopefully that does not get in the way of what we are trying to ultimately accomplish, which is make this little not-so-important slice of our lives a better place for everyone.

The problem with the date was that it meant that some people (i.e. me) didn't take it seriously. Then, when it became clear that it was serious, it felt like you had snuck it in by the back door. If you look at the announcement thread that Ori made, there was practically no real discussion of it. That's why there's so much more complaining now, after the split.

It's a pretty major change that you know will ruffle feathers; it deserves to be treated more seriously.

@BirdJag: All of those "other" problems you listed could easily have been prevented if you had discussed it openly first. I.e. announced that you were going to do it, then held a poll for what we wanted it to be called, whether we wanted to archive the old OT or to just create a new, serious OT next to it, and so on. It just seems like, as with so many other things, groupthink took over and you just ran with it.

 

[Dachs]

The problem with the date was that it meant that some people (i.e. me) didn't take it seriously. Then, when it became clear that it was serious, it felt like you had snuck it in by the back door.

That's been made clear? I don't think it has.

 

[Mise]

Well if I were a mod I wouldn't take this much crap over an April Fool's joke

 

[Dachs]

Well if I were a mod I wouldn't take this much crap over an April Fool's joke

Hence why you're not a mod. Drawing it out just means more people get sucked in.

 

[Leoreth]

I think it has been a glorious success already. The FT threads are a joy to read and to contribute to. B1tch and moan all you like, but while you do so, please don't forget to enjoy the new found freedom to have some fun too.

It's interesting that if someone relies on his observations for criticism, it's "too early", but you can inexplicably already declare everything a "glorious success". The way criticism is dealt with actually annoys me more than the actual change discussed.

It's not about "... and moaning" (isn't circumventing the filter an infractable offense? ). Most people disagree with details of the implementation, and as far as I've seen, with reasonable arguments. I would understand this as a positive reaction to the overall concept.

As Mise said, if you had just started a discussion about the change before you implemented it, you might have gotten the same comments without both sides being so antagonistic about it. But now it's apparently preferable to simply decree this to be a success and ignore all arguments that say otherwise.

 

[Kyriakos]

Some aspects of the implementation still have me thinking it might all be a joke :/

 

[azzaman333]

I have no problem with having two forums and overall I think it will work out great.

However, as has been mentioned, the implementation was poor with a terrible release date and confusing mixed messages (some of which were not befitting of the staff at all) from several staff members.

I'm sure I said something very similar to this in some other thread, so rather than dig it up and repost it I'll just agree.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Hence why you're not a mod. Drawing it out just means more people get sucked in.

At this point, if it is a joke, then they will have cried the ultimate "wolf."

 

[Dachs]

At this point, if it is a joke, then they will have cried the ultimate "wolf."

Hey, if it isn't a joke, the implementation was so botched that they've got no business in the day-to-day management of an internet forum. I'm just picking the charitable option.

 

[Cutlass]

Some aspects of the implementation still have me thinking it might all be a joke :/

For me as well.

 

[amadeus]

From a practical standpoint, splitting the forum is only going to make both serious and lighthearted threads worse, not better.

I know I said I wouldn't be back until it was fixed, but this kvetching is meta in nature and thus does not mean to imply my return to posting on other subjects.

 

[Narz]

My initial reaction was in favor, but that has sharply reversed itself, for reasons that Owen Glyndwr and Joecoolio have enumerated. Also, I resent the idea that serious discussion cannot be had in any environment other than a heavily policed one with strict, ruthlessly enforced rules. And that's what the moderation in that forum is: ruthless, not rigorous. It's going to implode on itself in the same way that OT has been slowly doing for years, largely because of the poor moderation habits in the direction I just described, and have elaborated upon more eloquently and exhaustively in the past.

The word ruthless is a little dramatic I think but I agree. Seriously doesn't have to be stuffy & silliness doesn't have to be stupid.

 

[Tee Kay]

I realise I'm contradicting myself all over the place on this issue; I'm just following the crowd mostly.

I'm still two minds about it; I think it's a good idea to have two forums for two styles of posting, with two styles of moderation, and a clear line between them, and part of me is just happy that something is finally being done about the complaints that OT have raised through many years.

On the other paw, the implementation has been less than agreeable, for the reasons many have already said, including the post above me, and then there's that postcount thing.

So despite being the OP of a thread campaigning for the reversal of the split, I do find a lot to like about the split and I won't be too bothered even if Light OT goes without postcount (though I do rather like to have postcount there).