DoC Alternate History modmod Brainstorming Thread

[mrrandomplayer]

Double post, but here's a rough idea of what the map might look like. I've taken a lot of suggestions into account. The year will probably be 1600.

Spoiler :

Civilization overview:
India may look weak with no colonies, but it will start with plenty of settlers and Galleons as well as the strongest concentrated army on the planet (China's is larger but more spread out).
Tamils decided to seek the New World by going west instead of East, and their hard work paid off. They have established several colonies/ports in Africa and are starting to colonize South America.
China, the first nation to discover the Americas, has successfully conquered the Aztecs and all of Central America. They are now ready to explore past the Rio Grande, but no without contest from Japan and Korea.
Japan at first rushed to colonize, but a massive war with China slowed both and allowed Korea to break free of Ming patronage and begin colonization.

I will post an extended timeline later.

 

[ales_]

Why is there no Internet in this camp?

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Why is there no Internet in this camp?

It is "harmful to the program", which I can kind of see. It is a boarding camp, so if everyone is on the internet, nobody is interacting. I think it is excessive, but I understand the reasoning behind it and don't have a choice either way.

 

[ales_]

Thank you for your answers.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Thank you for your answers.

Just curious, why did you ask these questions?

Also, a very rough timeline (to be detailed later, Part 1:

620ish: the Anti-Byzantine Sassanid Shah is killed in a "hunting accident". A more diplomatic successor takes his place and forms an alliance against the new Islamic Caliphate.
Shortly later: A combined Byzanto-Persian army crushes the main Muslim army outside of Jerusalem, killing Abu Bakr with the only remaining Muslim forces being the troops in Egypt. Shortly thereafter, a peace treaty is made, where Arabia gets some of Egypt but nothing else.
625-ish to 720-ish: Unable to push northwards, the Islamic Caliphate pushes westward instead, quickly overwhelming all of North Africa. Note: Without the areas of support that it had in our timeline, the Shia/Sunni split never develops.
720-ish: The Caliphate invades Iberia and successfully conquers it from the Vandals.
732: The Caliphate crushes the Franks at the Battle of Tours. Charles Martel is killed during the battle.
750s: The Caliphate starts to fracture politically into several different Emirates/Sultanates. Notable ones include the Sultanate of Iberia, the Sultanate of Morocco, and the Sultanate of France. The new Abbasid Caliphate (the Umayyads had been overthrown), while claiming rule over the entire Islamic world, really only influences Arabia and Egypt.

 

[Sgt. Bears]

I'm not sure that Indonesia and Thailand whould have colonized those parts of Australia. Since at first glance the land is very barren.
Also since I assume that the Tamils were looking for trading posts in Africa. I don't think they would have conquered madagascar.
England would probably have conquered Scotland and Ireland by now since they don't have the crusades and the hundred years war to busy themselves with. They might have launched a crusade against France though.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

Double post, but here's a rough idea of what the map might look like. I've taken a lot of suggestions into account. The year will probably be 1600.

Spoiler :

Civilization overview:
India may look weak with no colonies, but it will start with plenty of settlers and Galleons as well as the strongest concentrated army on the planet (China's is larger but more spread out).
Tamils decided to seek the New World by going west instead of East, and their hard work paid off. They have established several colonies/ports in Africa and are starting to colonize South America.
China, the first nation to discover the Americas, has successfully conquered the Aztecs and all of Central America. They are now ready to explore past the Rio Grande, but no without contest from Japan and Korea.
Japan at first rushed to colonize, but a massive war with China slowed both and allowed Korea to break free of Ming patronage and begin colonization.

I will post an extended timeline later.

This is about 80% in sync with my timeline. I am going to give my own timeline for each countries in Asia explaining how they get where they get. I've almost completed India's right now will post in around 15 minutes.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

Alternate Timeline :

India :-

712 AD : Arab invasion of Sindh. Fails due to Chalukya-Sindhi-Rajput coalition

713-20 AD : Coalition invades Afghanistan and Persia in punitive invasions led by Bappa Rawal.

750 AD : Gopala becomes King in Bengal through election of lords.

753 AD : Beleaguered and war torn Chalukyan coalition fails. Rashtrakutas emerge.

760 AD : Tripartite war begins with the rise of Gujara Pratiharas in Western India invading Kannauj.

760-850 AD : Tripartite war ends with a Gujara Pratihara victory over North india up to the borders of Bihar in the East and Narmada in the South.

850-900 AD : Rashtrakuta decline, Western and Eastern Chalukyas split up and divide Rashtrakuta dominions.

900-920 AD : Gujara-pratihara and Chalukyas war for control over the Deccan.

950 AD : Cholas linked with Eastern Chalukyas through marital ties fight with the Chalukyas.

988-1000AD : Pala revival and expansion, extend their rule over all of Kannauj and take over Punjab delta and parts of modern day Rajasthan and Central India.

1000-1100 AD : Chola maritime empire covering maritime South East Asia and Sri Lanka.

1120 AD : collapse of Pratihara empire. Second expansion of the Pala empire up to Herat and Gwadar.

1100-1200 AD : Chola expansion over Deccan up to the Narmada.

1200-1300 AD : Chola-Pala war over Burma and Orissa. Pala victory

1100-1300 AD : Rajput revolts against Pala rule take place declining the power of the Palas and leading to their slow decline. Afghan kings overthrow Pala suzerainty in 1279 AD.

1280 AD : Persian Sassanid dynasty conquers Western Afghanistan and vassalizes Eastern Afghan Hindu shahis.

1300 AD : Pala empire begins to disintegrates leaving only Bihar, Bengal and Assam.

1326 : Senas depose the last Pala king and establish Sena dynasty over Bengal, Bihar and Assam.

1200-1300 AD : Turko-Mongol tribes invade India and Persia. Afghanistan laid waste and Persia conquered.

1336 AD : Chola Empire at the height of power covering all the Deccan, the Kra Isthmus, Burma, Sri Lanka, Maldives, Sri Vijaya kingdom (tributary), Orissa and Southern Bengal.

1300-1400 AD : New Gujara Pratihara kingdom forms around Gujarat, Rajasthan and Sindh uniting different Rajput clans under the leadership of Paramaras. The empire extends up to Western India and Afghanistan fighting off the Turko-Mongol invasions.

900-1400 AD : Naval technology develops and gunpowder is invented in India independently creating the first gunboats. This makes India's navy most powerful within the Indian Ocean region. During this time, scientists at Nalanda university discover advanced astronomy leading to building of better ships and navigational techniques.

C. 1451 AD : North India is divided between New Pratihara empire covering Western India and Afghanistan and Balochstan to the West and Sena Empire covering up to the borders of Burma in the East and Kannauj in the West. Chola power begins to decline in South East Asia.

1411-1451 AD : Chola-Ming war. Ming Dynasty victories helped by Sri Vijayan revolts and the decline of the Khmer Empire. Sri Vijaya becomes tributary to Ming Dynasty and Sri Lanka is invaded by the Ming.

1460 AD : An ambitious general Harihara creates a palace coup and overthrows the Chola king. He declares the Vijayanagara empire over all the Deccan provinces.

1460-1490 AD : war with Pratiharas and Senas leads to loss of Deccan territories to New Pratiharas and Orissa and Burma to Senas. China creates tributary state in Sri Lanka. Senas and Pratiharas create hindu confederacy to unite all of North India through marital alliance.

1490-1526 AD : Vijayanagar revival, Harihara's successors retake Sri Lanka and succeed in keeping the core domain up to the Godavari delta. Oceanic explorations to Africa and America.

1300-1500 AD : Decline of Buddhism and Nalanda University and different buddhist monasteries. Re-emergence of Hinduism in North India after centuries of Buddhist dominance.

1445-1560 AD : Maritime expansion of Pratiharas. All coastal cities of the Persian gulf brought under Pratihara rule, Somalia, Yemen, Oman invaded and converted into tributary states.

1300-1560 AD : expansion of hinduism and Buddhism into Africa and Arabia.

1490-1600 AD : Chola colonies in southern Africa, Australia and America.

 

[ales_]

Just curious, why did you ask these questions?

My parents were really curious where one can find a place without Internet.

 

[Tambien]

I know this is a bit late, but if you're looking for any more ideas AH.com would be a great resource.

http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/

 

[mrrandomplayer]

I'm back from other stuff, and soon I'm going to get off of my lazy bottom and start working on this mod again. Right now, I am working on an AltHist timeline for a NES that I think might be neat if put here, where the POD is both President Madison and Vice President Gerry die in 1813, causing Speaker of the House Henry Clay to become President. He makes much more aggressive moves and more British are sent to North America, causing France to win at Waterloo and decisively change history. I will post the timeline from my iPad in a bit. The scenario would start in 1863.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

RandNES 2 Timeline: North America

August 1813: Both President Madison and Vice President Gerry die while Congress was in recess, making Speaker of the House Henry Clay the 5th President of the United States.
September 1813: President Clay sends more reinforcements to Canada to take Montreal.
November 1813: Montreal falls to American forces.
December 1813: Quebec falls to American forces.
February 1814: Toronto falls to American forces, but it is a Pyrrhic victory.
April 1814: British forces led by the Duke of Wellington land on New York Island and capture the city, but they become surrounded on the island by a late group of American ships as well as several American privateers.
July 1814: President Clay, upon hearing from intelligence that the British sent another army to Washington DC, calls all nearby militia and soldiers to defend the city at all costs.
August 1814: A British attack on Washington DC is repulsed by a Tennessee militia general named Andrew Jackson, who becomes a national hero.
September 1814: The British army in New York surrenders. President Clay sends John Quincy Adams, William H. Crawford, and Albert Gallatin to negotiate a peace treaty with England at Neutral Lisbon.
March 1815: After months of stalled conversation, the entrance of French diplomats swings the treaty towards the American and French side.
June 1815: The Treaty of Lisbon is signed. America purchases Southern Canada from England, and France gets back Quebec and the parts of India that it lost during the 7 Years' War.
August 1816: Following Southern American independence campaigns, President Clay issues the Clay Doctrine (OTL Monroe doctrine).
October 1816: Following the collapse of Spain, Florida and Cuba request annexation by the US, with a little "help" from some more militant Americans there. They are annexed as territories by the lame duck War Hawk congress.
November 1816: Clay wins reelection by a a landslide.
March 1817: In his inauguration speech, Clay announces the American System (otl except with an amendment requiring the president to choose a new Vice President if the old one dies and congress is out of session)
June 1817: The Internal Improvements package passes.
July 4th: Internal improvements package is signed.
December 1817: Tariff is passed and promptly signed.
February 1818: National Bank bill is passed and signed, opening up a can of worms in Congress and splitting the Republican Party into the pro-BUS National Republican Party and the anti-BUS Old Republican Party.
March 1818: Another can of worms is opened when Cuba requests admission as a slave state.
May 1818: Compromise is proposed when Southern Canada (called Arcadia in this timeline) is admitted as a free state as well and slavery is not allowed past the otl Missouri Compromise border.
June 1818: Compromise passes the senate by one vote.
September 1818: Compromise passes the house by a narrow margin.
1819: President Clay is pleased by the McCulloch v. Maryland decision giving more power to the BUS.
Early 1820: France and the US sign the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, promising not to interfere in each other's continents and opening up trade.
March 1820: Clay announces that he will not run for a third term, opening up the presidential race between James Monroe (old republicans), William Crawford (national republicans), and Rufus King (Federalists).
November 1820: Votes are (electoral college %):
Crawford: 45% (Midwest and middle Atlantic + Georgia)
Monroe: 35% (Virginia and cotton south)
King: 20% (New England and New York)
The election is thrown into the house because of the lack of a candidate with a majority.
December 1820: The Federalists, tying all votes, propose a Faustian bargain with the National Republicans: the parties would merge if support was provided for abolishment of the 3/5ths clause. The Old Republicans lack the votes in Congress to make the bargain.
February 1821: Realizing that time is nearly out, Crawford reluctantly agrees to the deal and is elected the 6th president.
March 1821: Crawford is inaugurated.
Crawford's term: the USA steadily expands westward, with Congress' main issue being the abolition of the 3/5ths clause. Crawford does nothing to help the pro-amendment politicians, and several votes to pass the amendment fail, causing anger among New England Federalists.
Election of 1824: Original candidates are: Crawford (N. Republicans), Monroe (O. Republicans), and Webster (Federalists). Some northern Republicans nominate JQ Adams instead for the party ticket, and suddenly that movement picks up speed when Crawford suffers a stroke in July. Seeing a much more national candidate who will try to help their goal, the Federalists change their support to Adams.
Final candidates: JQ Adams (N. Republicans) vs James Monroe (O. Republicans). JQ Adams wins narrowly and becomes the 7th President.
March 1825: JQ Adams is inaugurated.
June 1825: Congress and JQ Adams agree to send a diplomat to negotiate with England a settlement on the Canadian-American border.
August 1825: Realizing that their Canadian provinces are scattered and Oregon will not help them much, Britain agrees to drop their claim on the Oregon territory and settle for the American border in exchange for money.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

RandNES 2 Timeline: Europe

December 1814: Napoleon escapes Elba, reconquers Paris, and declares himself Emperor.
December 1814-March 1815: With the Duke of Wellington gone, Napoleon wins victory after victory, and in March, is invited to the American-British peace treaty at Lisbon.
June 1815: The Treaty of Lisbon is signed. America purchases Southern Canada from England, and France gets back Quebec and the parts of India that it lost during the 7 Years' War.
August 1816: Under French pressue, Spain puts Joseph Bonaparte back on the Spanish throne, and begins to send large French and Spanish fleets to crush the Latin American revolutions.
September 1816: Joe Bonaparte is shot and killed by a Catalan extremist. Spain plunges into civil war, with pro-Bourbon forces, pro-Bonaparte forces, and democratic forces fighting each other while Catalonia and the Basque country declare independence.
November 1816: France marches into Spain to restore a Bonaparte King. Austria, Prussia, and Russia (the Holy Alliance) declare war, while England is busy recovering from the disasters in the war of 1812.
November 1816-February 1819: A long war is fought in Spain. At first, France has the upper hand, but later, Austria wins some victories, creating a stalemate. England declares war on France in late 1818.
June 1817: Taking advantage of France's distraction, Venice declares independence from the Kingdom of Italy, followed by Naples and several other minor states.
March 1819: The Congress of Ghent decides the fate of Spain and Italy. Napoleon and the other powers compromise, giving independence and democracy to Catalonia and the Basque Country and endorsing their neutrality, but giving the remainder of Spain a Bonaparte ruler. Venice gains full independence, a northern Italian state of "Padania" is formed as a pro-French puppet. Piedmont retains its independence and its alliance with France. Tuscany is created as another pro-French state. "Adriatica" is created as a pro-Austrian state. Naples regains its independence. In essence, the larger Italian states gained independence in exchange for abandoning support of smaller Italian states.
Mid 1820: A rebellion breaks out in Egypt against Ottoman rule. Istanbul is unable to deal with the rebellion and another breaks out in Arabia, then one in Palestine. Napoleon invades Egypt again, seizing an opportunity. England does the same, and the two countries fight an undeclared war in Egypt.
Early 1821: England withdraws from Egypt, giving France de facto control of the region. Greece declares independence and crushes weak ottoman forces.
1822: Venice declares war on the Ottomans and takes Crete, Cyprus, and Libya, turning what was intended to be a buffer state into a more powerful force.
Early 1824: After seeing obvious signs that the Ottoman Empire is falling apart, the 5 Powers and Venice meet in Milan to divide up the Ottoman Empire.
April 1824: The Ottomans' Balkan possessions are given to Austria, Crete, Cyprus, and Libya are given to the newly powerful Venice, France gets Egypt, Russia gets the Caucasus and favored access through Constantinople, and England gets Palestine. Arabia gains its independence, leaving the Ottomans with just Turkey and Mesopotamia.
June 1824: Napoleon suddenly dies, ending France's militaristic expansion.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

Since France gets back the Carnatic, this would mean Britain can't fight the third Anglo-Maratha war as effectively or take out the Sikhs because it would have a counter-pressure from the South in the form of the French. the French would work with other independent Indian kingdoms to keep them independent from English influence. The Marathas, the French and the Nizamat later on develop modernization under French influence while the English are boxed in Bengal which they buff up a bit like how the Japanese did with Manchuria.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

Here's an idea.. why not do something with the 3000 BC scenario ? That would be turning history from around the ice age.

Let's say, human civilization takes a radically different course and the first settled agricultural societies develop on the banks of the amazon in South America and in the Mississippi delta in north america.

These civilizations would be native american rather than Asian. In contrast to this, civilization emerges in the east much delayed with neither China nor Mesopotamia or Egypt emerging when they did.

What do you think ?