Does the Christian God capable of unconditional love?

[Moonsinger]

What is unconditional love? That is what I'm attempting to find out.

For example, I knew that my Mom had loved me unconditionally because she is willing to give up her life for me no matter what. Even if I told her that "you are not my mother" (just an example, I love my mother dearly and would never say such thing to her), I'm sure she would love me the same and would sacrifice her life for me no matter what I say and do. IMO, if this is not unconditional love, I don't know what else.

Now, let's talk about Jesus Christ for a moment. The Christian philosophy is that God love us; therefore, he sent Jesus to die for our sins. Well, we are not going to talk about sins or the existance of God in this thread. This thread is really about unconditional love. Here is my question:

If God loves us unconditionally, he would be willing to die for us whether or not we accept him. Just like my mother, she will die for me whether or not I accept/love/resprect her. Why do we have to accept Jesus in order to be saved? Why do we have to accept God in order to be saved? Because any love that have a string/demand /repayment clause is not unconditional love. Therefore, God doesn't express unconditional love toward us at all. If he loves us unconditionally, he wouldn't be forcing us to accept him and to love him. Yes, I said "force" because he isn't giving us much of an option here. Either to accept him or to spend eternity in hell.

Is God capable of unconditional love? What do you think? I expect God's love to be at least equal or greater than the love of my mother toward me. If my mother of fresh and blood is capable of greater love than God, then may be the Christians got it wrong or may be Jesus Christ wasn't really what he said he is.

 

[floppa21]

People have it wrong Moonsinger. Let's hope so anyways. The God of the people is just that, made by and for the people. If I am wrong, then we were truly made in His image which includes selfishness, pettyness, etc. God would thus be an imperfect being capable of immaturity and bad judgement. Forget perfect. He is not. As you said, there would be no option but to be loved by Him whether or not we wanted it. But we are told this is not the case. We can and will burn in Hell for not accepting Him and loving Him in return. I don't think the religions have it right. It fits the purpose and needs of the various religions as they see fit, but that's it. The God of the people does NOT have unconditional love. If He is the true God, then it sucks for us all.

 

[Skullbones]

I'd say it really just depends on what side you're standing on. If you're a good, wholesome, Christian believer then yeah. He loves you unconditionally. If you aren't or if you try to rationalize it or look at it logically, he doesn't.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

There's also the part with "God loves you, that's why he makes you suffer"

 

[Packer-Backer]

Well, floppa21. In his image pretty much means two things: One, God looks like a man. And two, you are capable of the good that God has to offer. But, having free will you have the free will to be evil. Look at it this way, Moonsinger: Let's say your mother (God) baked you a cake (Heaven) and told you that to get to it you must go through the kitchen door (Jesus). All she asks is that you go through the door. You say you want the cake but should be allowed to get it without going through the door, she says the cake is in the kitchen and the only way to it is through the door. You keep asking questions about the door and asking, if it is so great a cake and you love me so much, shouldn't I get the cake whether or not I want to go through the door? Your mother wants you to stuff your face with the cake but she cannot bring the cake to you, you must go through the door. You keep arguing and then you walk away. You can't have any cake because you refuse to walk through the door.

God loves you but you must accept him or else he is powerless to let you into cake, I mean, heaven.

 

[Little Raven]

Originally posted by Skullbones
I'd say it really just depends on what side you're standing on. If you're a good, wholesome, Christian believer then yeah. He loves you unconditionally. If you aren't or if you try to rationalize it or look at it logically, he doesn't.

*chuckle*

From HyperDictionary.com
Definition: [adj] not modified or restricted by reservations; "a categorical denial"; "a flat refusal"
[adj] not conditional; "unconditional surrender"
[adj] not contingent; not determined or influenced by someone or something else

 

[Aphex_Twin]

Originally posted by Packer-Backer
In his image pretty much means two things: One, God looks like a man. And two, you are capable of the good that God has to offer. But, having free will you have the free will to be evil. Look at it this way, Moonsinger: Let's say your mother (God) baked you a cake (Heaven) and told you that to get to it you must go through the kitchen door (Jesus). All she asks is that you go through the door. You say you want the cake but should be allowed to get it without going through the door, she says the cake is in the kitchen and the only way to it is through the door. You keep asking questions about the door and asking, if it is so great a cake and you love me so much, shouldn't I get the cake whether or not I want to go through the door? Your mother wants you to stuff your face with the cake but she cannot bring the cake to you, you must go through the door. You keep arguing and then you walk away. You can't have any cake because you refuse to walk through the door.

God loves you but you must accept him or else he is powerless to let you into cake, I mean, heaven.

That's a nice little metaphore. Yet one which brings nothing new to the discussion. Actually, I don't think there was anything new to theese threads for quite some time.

 

[Packer-Backer]

Agreed. And thank you, Aphex_Twin. God bless you all.

 

[Mescalhead]

This is how I would tell the story:


Let's say your mother (God) baked you a cake (Heaven) and told you that to get to it you must go through the kitchen door (Jesus). All she asks is that you go through the door. You say you want the cake but should be allowed to get it without going through the door, she says the cake is in the kitchen and the only way to it is through the door, even though being God she could easily put the cake right in your hands without any effort; she loves games. You keep asking questions about the door and asking, if it is so great a cake and you love me so much, shouldn't I get the cake whether or not I want to go through the door? Your mother can bring the cake to you, but would rather assert her already obvious superiority for some uknown reason. She is omnipotent, but she just loves to prove to her children how much they need her, even though she could make those she loves so much, completely self sufficient and content. She would rather keep them in a state of infantility. You keep arguing and then you walk away, wondering if you can get on Opera and talk to Dr. Phil about your mother's strange manias.. You can't have any cake because your mother obviously has some sort of mental issues, alas, God works in mysterious ways..

 

[Packer-Backer]

Wrong, Mescalhead. Your mother baked the cake and really the only way is through the door.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

How's that?

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Packer-Backer
Moonsinger: Let's say your mother (God) baked you a cake (Heaven) and told you that to get to it you must go through the kitchen door (Jesus). All she asks is that you go through the door. You say you want the cake but should be allowed to get it without going through the door, she says the cake is in the kitchen and the only way to it is through the door. You keep asking questions about the door and asking, if it is so great a cake and you love me so much, shouldn't I get the cake whether or not I want to go through the door? Your mother wants you to stuff your face with the cake but she cannot bring the cake to you, you must go through the door. You keep arguing and then you walk away. You can't have any cake because you refuse to walk through the door.

I think you leave out a big part of your story. Here is how I see it:

Not only God baked a cake (heaven), but he also set the kitchen on fire too. This is a special kind of fire that would continue to burn you alive for eternity (hell) and you can never die from it. He also sealed the kitchen with steel wall with you in it and told you that there is no other escape. Then he gave you a choice: You must go through the kitchen door (Jesus) to get to the cake (heaven) or you will be burned alive by the fire (hell) that he started. Now, please tell me again, is this really love?

 

[Mescalhead]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Now, please tell me again, is this really love?

No it is not. In order to really understand the Old Testament and New, one must truly study the ancient Hebrews and Judaism. It is basically a guideline for a culture based on paranoia and existential fear, nothing more. Christianity goes a bit further offering etranal paradise or eternal damnation. The nature of hell, in the bible, is quite unclear.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Mescalhead
No it is not. In order to really understand the Old Testament and New, one must truly study the ancient Hebrews and Judaism. It is basically a guideline for a culture based on paranoia and existential fear, nothing more. Christianity goes a bit further offering etranal paradise or eternal damnation. The nature of hell, in the bible, is quite unclear.

Exactly why I share the same belief as floppa21 that the Christians have gotten it all wrong. If I'm an atheist, I would careless on what they believe, but since I'm used to be a devoted Christian too, I want them to understand the mental abuse that they have inflicted upon me. Btw, I'm not angry at them in anyway because I believe that they don't really know what they are doing.

 

[Becka]

If God loves us unconditionally, he would be willing to die for us whether or not we accept him. Just like my mother, she will die for me whether or not I accept/love/resprect her. Why do we have to accept Jesus in order to be saved? Why do we have to accept God in order to be saved? Because any love that have a string/demand /repayment clause is not unconditional love. Therefore, God doesn't express unconditional love toward us at all. If he loves us unconditionally, he wouldn't be forcing us to accept him and to love him. Yes, I said "force" because he isn't giving us much of an option here. Either to accept him or to spend eternity in hell.

Think of it this way instead. Think of going to hell as a choice, just like living in a different part of the globe from your mother is a choice. You don't HAVE to live with God (or your mother) forever. You can be seperated at, though that pains God (or your mother) dearly. But your mother can't make you, and God won't make you stay.

Originally posted by Packer-Backer
Well, floppa21. In his image pretty much means two things: One, God looks like a man. And two, you are capable of the good that God has to offer.

What? So God has genitals? Legs? Arm? So God is DEFINITELY a man? There are some people who look a lot like monkeys and monkeys who look a lot like people. Did God make them in His image too?

 

[Skullbones]

Originally posted by Little Raven
*chuckle*

What's so funny?

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Becka
Think of it this way instead. Think of going to hell as a choice, just like living in a different part of the globe from your mother is a choice. You don't HAVE to live with God (or your mother) forever. You can be seperated at, though that pains God (or your mother) dearly. But your mother can't make you, and God won't make you stay.

I concur with what you said! No problem there! However, if you are a Christian, you know that this isn't the case (at least that is what we have been taught in the Christian faith). In this example, your mother would say "fine! if you want to leave me, that's fine; however, before you go, you should know this: within 10 years (judgment day) I will hunt you down and throw you in the eternal hell for leaving me".

What? So God has genitals? Legs? Arm? So God is DEFINITELY a man? There are some people who look a lot like monkeys and monkeys who look a lot like people. Did God make them in His image too?

Not literally! I think it means that we may inherit certain genetic makeup, etc. Just like 1 god day isn't litterally equal to 1 earth day.

 

[newfangle]

"Unconditional Love." This term is perhaps the greatest misconception of love man has ever seen.

Those who claim love as unconditional, unearned, and universal destroy its sublime value.

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by Moonsinger


I concur with what you said! No problem there! However, if you are a Christian, you know that this isn't the case (at least that is what we have been taught in the Christian faith). In this example, your mother would say "fine! if you want to leave me, that's fine; however, before you go, you should know this: within 10 years (judgment day) I will hunt you down and throw you in the eternal hell for leaving me".

Goodness, who approved YOUR Christian Club membership card?
Hell is seperation from God. It's not like He's down there bullwhipping you. Satan is the admin and his cohorts are the mods. It just SO happens that where there is no God is a very unhappy place. Nifty, that.

Not literally! I think it means that we may inherit certain genetic makeup, etc. Just like 1 god day isn't litterally equal to 1 earth day.

Wow, first I hear God looks just like us, then I hear he has genetic makeup. You learn something new every day.

 

[Little Raven]

Originally posted by Becka
Hell is seperation from God. It's not like He's down there bullwhipping you. Satan is the admin and his cohorts are the mods. It just SO happens that where there is no God is a very unhappy place. Nifty, that.

But God is all-powerful. He has dominion over Hell. If he loved you, he would surely save you. And if his love is unconditional, then he loves you regardless of what you may have done. Why would he leave you there?