Does (The Christian) God have Limited Power?

[Whiskey_Lord]

It's possible that the universe has always existed in some form.

 

[Ajidica]

@Ajidica- Even if that, God created the force.

So God violates physical laws? Still, can you prove God created the force or was even needed to create the force?

If there is literally nothing in the world, there isn't any time either, therefore you can't say "Given enough time, it'll happen." "Time" is totally meaningless if nothing exists.

Time is a constant and always is occuring even if it cannot be percieved.

 

[GhostWriter16]

It's possible that the universe has always existed in some form.

Infinite time principle? Do you have any idea how ridiculous this is? So the Universe has always existed, yet will die?

If you constrict the Universe to time, then it must be finite. If the Universe is outside of time, it is God.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

AFAIK there is a theory which states that the universe is in a cycle in which it expands for a time, then contracts upon itself, then starts expanding again. If anyone knows a bit more about astronomy and has a counter to that theory, then please share it. 'It's hard to explain, so god probably did it' is not acceptable though.

 

[lovett]

If the Universe is outside of time, it is God.

What a ridiculous statement.

If we assumed that the universe, taken as a whole, was 'outside time' that would give us no basis to assume it was benevolent or sentient like we tend to assume God is. It would certainly give us no reason to believe that the universe was an active anthropomorphic orce behind any o the events depicted in any religious texts.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Even if that theory were true, it doesn't disprove God either necessarily (Well, I guess it couldn't have been around forever, but it could have been longer than the traditional 15 billion years.)

That said, how did the process start if it wasn't God?

 

[Perfection]

Why do we need to answer that?

 

[Seon]

If a process requires a God to start, then where did God come from?

 

[Ajidica]

That said, how did the process start if it wasn't God?

Where did the energy needed to create the universe come from.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

It doesn't have to disprove god because the burden of proof is always on the believer.

And who says the cycle had to have a beginning? Again, just because we don't know how something works doesn't mean we should assume it was caused by a supernatural power.

EDIT: Mega X-post. I'm on a roll with these tonight.

 

[GhostWriter16]

He always existed. But since his power is infinite, we have no need to explain that

 

[Ajidica]

He always existed.

So the universe needs a first cause, but God does not?

But since his power is infinite, we have no need to explain that

Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Really basic physics here.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Creation itself testifies to a Creator. To deny one, you must convince yourself. Thus Atheism is unnatural. Thus it is wrong.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

The Thor trailer doesn't count.

Why not, it's as least as convincing as appearing in a book written c. 2000 years ago.

@Dommy: The universe came into existence through a big bang, it needed no god. We had to invent a god to convince ourselves otherwise. Thus theism is unnatural, thus it is wrong. See what I did there? I used your arguement against you showing you how invalid it is (as in an arguement that can say anything isn't worth a brass farthing). And even at that I managed a more valid arguement (I referenced something that actually happened, you referenced a belief).

Oh, and Dommy this kind of stunt is exactly why I gave you a 1 in your how much have I improved thread, as you are using the same non-arguements to try and prove a point you have no chance of proving. You are using outright fallacies to try and shove your beliefs in front of honest to goodness, tested and tried science. And all because you are unwilling to at least try to reconcile your faith to reality.

 

[GhostWriter16]

When hundreds of people start giving their lives for what they personally saw in the Thor trailer, I'll give it some credence.

 

[Ajidica]

Creation itself testifies to a Creator.

Only if you allow yourself to believe in one. Why must the creating force be derived from the active participation of some unseen entity?

When hundreds of people start giving their lives for what they personally saw in the Thor trailer, I'll give it some credence.

Baltic Crusades, Charlemagne's Saxon Wars.

 

[Perfection]

He always existed. But since his power is infinite, we have no need to explain that

Why should infinite power imply that something always existed?

 

[Zack]

@Ajidica- You can explain that though. The garbage man picked it up. The problem would be if you assumed that that wasn't the case, but that it just vanished into thin air.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bill-oreilly-you-cant-explain-that

 

[GhostWriter16]

@Ajidica- Give me the names of at least 10 atheists before Origin of Species was written.

I think it will be quite a challenge.

 

[Perfection]

Creation itself testifies to a Creator.

Maybe the universe is not a creation.