EDCNs (Expanded Dynamic Civ Names) new thread

[BenZL43]

That would be more fitting, but I never saw the name Colamandala before

Spoiler Bahasa Indonesia :

Susah juga sih nyarinya di Google, tapi dulu pas pelajaran sejarah, gw diajarin kalo Sriwijaya hancur gara" diserang Colamandala dari India lho ^^

Spoiler :

(I've read from Wikipedia about the Difference between Kedatuan and Kedaton, but it seems to me that Kedaton would sound more 'Ancient' than Kedatuan, since Javanese often says Todays 'U' as 'O')

Because in this game Indonesia starts as Sriwijaya, the name Kedatuan which is Malay is more fitting imo, it can change to Kedaton or even Negara, as you sugested, when it become Majapahit (by era = Medieval or total city owned > x )

In addition, I found few more Ancient Javanese names :
-India : Bharatawarsha (The name is from the Mahabharata, but it is used by Ancient Majapahit.)
-China : Cīnāh (Based on Sanskrit)
-Arabia/Persia : Yawana (It actually refers to Western India, but it have a probability that it may also refer to anything West of India, which is the Middle East)

Nice work ^^
On Yawana, afaik Yawana or also known as Yona revers to the Greece, probably Indo- That explains why we call that country Yunani.. probably it refers to this kingdom or its successors~

 

[Lone Wolf]

Afaik, "Yunan" and variations on the theme come from "Ionia" and for a while later used in India and lands further east for everything "far Western".

 

[Reus]

Susah juga sih nyarinya di Google, tapi dulu pas pelajaran sejarah, gw diajarin kalo Sriwijaya hancur gara" diserang Colamandala dari India lho ^^

Spoiler :

Hmm, artinya gua harus buka buka buku sejarah sekolah lama nih
(EDIT: Hmm, it means I must probably re-open my old school History Books)

Because in this game Indonesia starts as Sriwijaya, the name Kedatuan which is Malay is more fitting imo, it can change to Kedaton or even Negara, as you sugested, when it become Majapahit (by era = Medieval or total city owned > x )

That would do, but what language does the Srivijaya used back then anyways

Nice work ^^

Danke ! I think I can probably find a few more like the Mongols, Japanese, and some of the Middle Eastern civs. Its hard because there are very few sources regarding this naming issue, and I doubt that Majapahit have a name for the Aztecs or the Incas

On Yawana, afaik Yawana or also known as Yona revers to the Greece, probably Indo- That explains why we call that country Yunani.. probably it refers to this kingdom or its successors~

Afaik, "Yunan" and variations on the theme come from "Ionia" and for a while later used in India and lands further east for everything "far Western".

Yes, I have read that also. Those names are actually from Mahabharata and something similar, so the exact location of some of those names are still debated today. But both of you are right, perhaps its more fitting to use Yawana for the Greeks rather than Persia or Arabia.

 

[BenZL43]

That would do, but what language does the Srivijaya used back then anyways

Well, according to Kotakapur and many other inscriptions, the Srivijayan uses Old Malay language but with Pallavan script ^^

Spoiler :

Duh, apparently the Srivijayan refer themselves as kadatuan çrivijaya, so naming their vassals also Kadatuan might not be appropriate

Danke ! I think I can probably find a few more like the Mongols, Japanese, and some of the Middle Eastern civs. Its hard because there are very few sources regarding this naming issue, and I doubt that Majapahit have a name for the Aztecs or the Incas

Mongol: There should be a name for Mongolia, because we did interact with them before the Invasion of Java occurs.
Arab: Srivijaya did exchanging letters with the Abbassid Caliphate. I only know that they called Srivijaya as Zabag





Yes, I have read that also. Those names are actually from Mahabharata and something similar, so the exact location of some of those names are still debated today. But both of you are right, perhaps its more fitting to use Yawana for the Greeks rather than Persia or Arabia.[/QUOTE]

 

[Leoreth]

Moderator Action: Spoilered or not, please include translations for conversations in foreign languages to comply with the forum rules.

 

[Reus]

Moderator Action: Spoilered or not, please include translations for conversations in foreign languages to comply with the forum rules.

Sorry, I haven't noticed that; Will do...

 

[Reus]

Well, according to Kotakapur and many other inscriptions, the Srivijayan uses Old Malay language but with Pallavan script ^^

Oh, I see.....

Duh, apparently the Srivijayan refer themselves as kadatuan çrivijaya, so naming their vassals also Kadatuan might not be appropriate

That complicates things would Negri/Negara/Nagara be more fitting then ?

Mongol: There should be a name for Mongolia, because we did interact with them before the Invasion of Java occurs.
Arab: Srivijaya did exchanging letters with the Abbassid Caliphate. I only know that they called Srivijaya as Zabag

Still sounds quite like the contemporary names
Yes they do contact a lot with each other especially with Arabia.
But still, I haven't found a Srivijaya/Majapahit name for it

 

[BenZL43]

That complicates things would Negri/Negara/Nagara be more fitting then ?

I think Negara is better, since Majapahit calls themselves Negara Agung (eng: Grand State of Majapahit, not Majapahit Empire). So referring every other vassals as Negara (eng: country / state) while referring themselves as Grand State is enough imo.

Still sounds quite like the contemporary names
Yes they do contact a lot with each other especially with Arabia.
But still, I haven't found a Srivijaya/Majapahit name for it

At least we can propose Sultanate of Zabag to Hippo8085 now for Indonesia as vassals to Arabia... iirc it's still Sultanate of Indonesia which is kinda strange.

 

[Reus]

I think Negara is better, since Majapahit calls themselves Negara Agung (eng: Grand State of Majapahit, not Majapahit Empire). So referring every other vassals as Negara (eng: country / state) while referring themselves as Grand State is enough imo.

That sounds good and reasonable to me

At least we can propose Sultanate of Zabag to Hippo8085 now for Indonesia as vassals to Arabia... iirc it's still Sultanate of Indonesia which is kinda strange.

That too

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I actually found conclusive proof for Haixi (Egypt) in Rhye's original rendering of the vassal name.

http://io9.com/heres-what-third-century-china-thought-about-the-roman-1253007513
http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/weilue/weilue.html

It's originally from the Weilue. An ancient Chinese document on western peoples.
So an ancient Egyptian vassal of China should be: Tributary Haixi State
A modern/post-rebirth vassal should use the modern: Tributary Aiji State

Also, I now agree with Qiu. It isn't consistent, but it sounds more appropriate if we leave the Mongol vassal name as Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region.

 

[BenZL43]

^ That's a wonderful article! Worth in golds..

What's the current Chinese vassal name for Persia & Babylon?
From now on it could be Tributary Haidong State and Tributary Haibei State, respectively

EDIT: I remember. It's Anxi for Persia, which according to this article refer to Parthia.
So, Haidong and Anxi can be differentiated by era, I guess? Haidong early Persia, Anxi for Parthian Persia.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

“Now, if you leave the city of Angu (Gerrha) by the overland route, you go due north to Haibei (‘North of the Sea&#8217, then due west to Haixi (Egypt), then turn due south to go through the city of Wuchisan (Alexandria).”

This is very interesting. It should be added to CNM as well

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

^lol, but you're the one responsible for the City Name Manager, Ben!

I'm not certain for Babylon, but if you dive deeper, I'm sure you can find it.

 

[BenZL43]

"From Anxi (Parthia) you go around Haibei (‘North of the Sea’ – the lands between Babylonia and Jordan) to reach this country."

^ I think this is enough to make Haibei as the name for Babylon.
What makes me wonder now, it looks like Anxi and Haidong existed simultaneously (?)

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Maphilindo as a dynamic name for Indonesia if it controls Malaysia + the Philippines.

http://www.sabrizain.org/malaya/library/connections.pdf

(Jump to pg. 7)

 

[Hippo8085]

Put a small update out, updated to SN 622.

I will get a larger update by Monday of the week after next. If I don't, I'm either dead or dying.

 

[Hippo8085]

New update up on the second post as usual (though I guess that hasn't been so usual lately). Following changes:

Korean name when capital is in Manchuria (really anything north of the row of tiles directly north of the coastline) before medieval era now Kingdom of Balhae
Modern Korea as a vassal to China now Yanbian Autonomous Prefecture
Default vassal name for Indonesia now Negara ___
Indonesia as an Arabian vassal now Sultanate of Zabag
Egypt as vassal of China now Tributary Haixi State
Reborn Egypt as a vassal of China now Tributary Aiji State
Babylon as a vassal of China now Tributary Haibei State
Default vassal name for Japan after 1900 now Co-Prosperity ___
Specific vassal names for Japan historically during WWII now only appear after 1900

 

[Atlantic Pacf.]

I, as a Mandarin speaker, never understood why Korea and Japan are called "Tributary Chaoxian and Wo States," respectively. I always called them Hánguó and Rìběn, respectively.

inb4 "ignorant of your own history"

There needs to be priority given to Iran. I do not like controlling the "Satrapy of Austria" as the "Republic of Persia" in the 20th century.

 

[Hippo8085]

I, as a Mandarin speaker, never understood why Korea and Japan are called "Tributary Chaoxian and Wo States," respectively. I always called them Hánguó and Rìběn, respectively.

I know that at least Hanguo is a modern name. Chaoxian can refer to Korea, though not sure exactly how.

There needs to be priority given to Iran. I do not like controlling the "Satrapy of Austria" as the "Republic of Persia" in the 20th century.

You wouldn't if you had EDCNs. You would be controlling the "Protectorate of Austria" as the "Republic of Iran" if you were to be running a democratic set of civics as Persia or Iran and had a vassal state of HRE in the 20th century.

 

[Atlantic Pacf.]

You wouldn't if you had EDCNs. You would be controlling the "Protectorate of Austria" as the "Republic of Iran" if you were to be running a democratic set of civics as Persia or Iran and had a vassal state of HRE in the 20th century.

Considering that this is the EDCN thread, "Protectorate of X" is not good enough.

I spent a couple minutes researching on the name of Iranian subdivisons, with most of the relevant information coming from Wikipedia. Didn't find anything for Safavid Iran, though (according to Wikipedia) there are local administrative districts ruled by Khans. Modern Iran is divided into provinces, which in Persian are called Ostān (pl. Ostānh&#257 (again, Wikipedia); though using internal adm. districts is somewhat troublesome, Russia (with its Krais) has set a precedent, so I believe it is acceptable.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I, as a Mandarin speaker, never understood why Korea and Japan are called "Tributary Chaoxian and Wo States," respectively. I always called them Hánguó and Rìběn, respectively.

Wo is used per my recommendation & Bair's in the past.
It is also what Chinese people referred to Japan as in the past. Meaning for most of relevant history before the advent of nationalism.
Corea is still sometimes referred to as Chaoxian and is freely interchanged with Hánguó.

Some trivia:
In vanilla RFC, Rhye had previously used the offensive "Wa" rendering for Japan,
and for China, used the offensive "Shina" rendering when vassalized to Japan.
That was something we rectified early on around 1.8/1.9 of DoC.