Egypt - Cleopatra Thread

[Alex Khan]

As I said in my deleted post, I don't like Cleopatra. Cleopatra it was not a great personality and is not even an iconic leader for ancient Egypt compared with Tuthmose III , Hatshepsut, Seti I, Ramesses II who build a empire...even Tut is more famous.

Cleopatra was just a mistress of roman generals and oriental kings and nothing more, until one man like Octavian declined to be enchanted by her charms ..
We have a false conception of her because feminist propaganda applied in movies and books .



Plus it was more Greek woman . But even so it was better if they put Ptolemeu I as leader.
During his reign began construction of the Lighthouse of Alexandria and Great Library .

 

[Morningcalm]

I don't like Cleopatra either; they could have just kept her leader head and replaced her name with Hatshepsut frankly; the abilities would still match since Hatshepsut was famous for her trade voyages to Punt, which matches Cleopatra's trade route UA.

I think they picked Cleo more for her agenda and name than anything else. Oh well.

 

[GenyaArikado]

Yes yes keep beating the dead horse, i think its hot

 

[Guandao]

Yes yes keep beating the dead horse, i think its hot

Can someone please make a gif for Teddy's, Victoria's, and Hojo Tokimune's animations?

 

[shyPiano]

Can someone please make a gif for Teddy's, Victoria's, and Hojo Tokimune's animations?

Here you go! http://imgur.com/a/iILsA

Spoiler :

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Here you go! http://imgur.com/a/iILsA

Spoiler :

Seeing all the animations back to back, I can't help but think that the "Big Personalities" approach is going to pay off. It is going to be a treat seeing them all in a game. These leaders just look like really memorable characters to interact with.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Here you go! http://imgur.com/a/iILsA

Spoiler :

You are a good and decent person.

 

[Zaarin]

Here you go! http://imgur.com/a/iILsA

Spoiler :

Tokimune seems so staid compared to the other three.

 

[isau]

I think they picked Cleo more for her agenda and name than anything else. Oh well.

I think they picked Cleo for name recognition and because there is something there to satirize and exaggerate without being disrespectful. Same thing for Victoria--you can give her snooty animations that just don't work with someone like Elizabeth. Hattie may have a bigger legacy, but Cleo is more fun. After seeing the direction of the art design, she is the obvious choice for me. I can't wait to see the other leaders.

 

[shyPiano]

Since this is Cleo's thread, here's also her Declaration of War and Defeated animations, stripped from the E3 Presentation video.

Spoiler :

 

[Zaarin]

Same thing for Victoria--you can give her snooty animations that just don't work with someone like Elizabeth.

Why on earth not? Elizabeth built a dazzling cult of love around herself that persists to this day, but beneath that the woman was an egomaniac (and I mean that very affectionately ). In fact, some scholars even believe that Cleopatra in Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra was modeled on Elizabeth I, but I personally think that's going a little too far. Nevertheless, the scene where Cleopatra belittles her attendant's description of Octavia is almost word-for-word how Elizabeth I reacted to a courtier's description of Mary, Queen of Scots.

Actually, that's why I'm so incredibly disappointed in Victoria--Elizabeth is one of the most fascinating, contradictory, and bedazzling individuals in history. Far more interesting than Victoria.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Why on earth not? Elizabeth built a dazzling cult of love around herself that persists to this day, but beneath that the woman was an egomaniac (and I mean that very affectionately ). In fact, some scholars even believe that Cleopatra in Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra was modeled on Elizabeth I, but I personally think that's going a little too far. Nevertheless, the scene where Cleopatra belittles her attendant's description of Octavia is almost word-for-word how Elizabeth I reacted to a courtier's description of Mary, Queen of Scots.

Actually, that's why I'm so incredibly disappointed in Victoria--Elizabeth is one of the most fascinating, contradictory, and bedazzling individuals in history. Far more interesting than Victoria.

The fact is that some civs like England will have dozens of potentially good leaders to pick from. Firaxis has to pick just one because they can't pick all of them. There is no right or wrong choice. So necessarily, not everyone is going to be happy with any choice they make.

 

[Tagma]

Since this is Cleo's thread, here's also her Declaration of War and Defeated animations, stripped from the E3 Presentation video.

Spoiler :

Only three posts, piano? Are they all going to be this awesome?!

 

[Zaarin]

The fact is that some civs like England will have dozens of potentially good leaders to pick from. Firaxis has to pick just one because they can't pick all of them. There is no right or wrong choice. So necessarily, not everyone is going to be happy with any choice they make.

True, but in this case I was addressing Isau's claim that "snooty animations" wouldn't have been appropriate for Elizabeth--a woman with an ego that could easily stand toe-to-toe with Henry VIII or Louis XIV. If anything, I'd suggest that Elizabeth's theatrical gestures would have made Cleopatra look boring.

 

[Art Grin]

Seeing all the animations back to back, I can't help but think that the "Big Personalities" approach is going to pay off. It is going to be a treat seeing them all in a game. These leaders just look like really memorable characters to interact with.

I hope they will be this lively throughout the entire game. One thing that I didn't like in V was that after the first encounter most leader remained rather static and only showed any movement/emotion when defeated (the 24/7 over-energetic Monty being an exception).

So far all the leaders look quite good and Cleopatra looks fun.

 

[Iapetus303]

As I said in my deleted post, I don't like Cleopatra. Cleopatra it was not a great personality and is not even an iconic leader for ancient Egypt compared with Tuthmose III , Hatshepsut, Seti I, Ramesses II who build a empire...even Tut is more famous.

Cleopatra was just a mistress of roman generals and oriental kings and nothing more, until one man like Octavian declined to be enchanted by her charms ..
We have a false conception of her because feminist propaganda applied in movies and books .



Plus it was more Greek woman . But even so it was better if they put Ptolemeu I as leader.
During his reign began construction of the Lighthouse of Alexandria and Great Library .

Cleopatra not an iconic Ancient Egyptian leader? I would have thought that along with Ramesses and Tut (and the Biblical ''Pharaoh'' - who may or may not have been Ramesses) she is one of the most famous. (Whereas Tuthmose, Hatshepsut, and Seti probably don't mean anything to most people, Civ players and ancient history fans excluded).

And the public perception of her probably owes most to Shakespeare, Hollywood, and hundreds of years of art.

Spoiler 19th Century Feminist Propaganda! :

And when she was born, her ancestors had been living in Egypt for over 250 years. If that isn't long enough to be an acceptable Civ leader, then neither are many of the other leaders. Would Roosevelt even meet those standards?

 

[GenyaArikado]

I'll take claim to the "first Civ6 Cleopatra fanart price" regardless of whether mine is first or not

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHrvJZUD4Ps/

 

[OnceAKing]

I hope they will be this lively throughout the entire game. One thing that I didn't like in V was that after the first encounter most leader remained rather static and only showed any movement/emotion when defeated (the 24/7 over-energetic Monty being an exception).

So far all the leaders look quite good and Cleopatra looks fun.

He was probably hopped up on all that "coffee"

 

[Zaarin]

And when she was born, her ancestors had been living in Egypt for over 250 years. If that isn't long enough to be an acceptable Civ leader, then neither are many of the other leaders. Would Roosevelt even meet those standards?

But Roosevelt considered himself American. The Ptolemies interbred with their own siblings for 250 years to avoid "contaminating" themselves with Egyptian blood and considered themselves Greek. It's significant that Cleopatra was the first Ptolemy in 250 years to learn Coptic. She may have lived in Egypt and her ancestors may have been in Egypt for some time, but I think it's fair to call the Ptolemies "Greek" because that is what they considered themselves and they were culturally Greek. They spoke Greek, they worshiped Greek gods, they kept themselves isolated from the indigenous Egyptians, and they held the Egyptians in contempt; the Ptolemies were Greek colonists, not Egyptians.

I wouldn't say this automatically disqualifies Cleopatra, and I've reluctantly come to terms with her presence. But I think a culturally Egyptian pharaoh would have been preferable to a Greek politician who gave herself an Egyptian image as a PR campaign to depict herself as "the representative of the people" in the civil war against her elitist brother--a campaign, incidentally, that didn't work until Caesar intervened. Cleopatra was a brilliant woman who spoke five languages and was a consummate politician, but she was not Egyptian.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Victoria is of German heritage and no one complains about that.