Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[Akka]

You mean Cold War ones? Because pre-WWII is far too little for Vlad. And Xi wants more that China ever touched.

Now, regarding Ukraine...the ball's on European court now. Trump is impressionable, and so far he has only been impressed by the tyrants. But with some care, and missteps on Putin's side, he might be turned around by someone charismatic enough. I'd probably nominate our president, out of all European statesmen he's the best fit.

Macron already congratulated Trump, even before all the results were in, I think he's trying to play the charm game with him.

 

[Verbose]

You mean Cold War ones? Because pre-WWII is far too little for Vlad. And Xi wants more that China ever touched.

Now, regarding Ukraine...the ball's on European court now. Trump is impressionable, and so far he has only been impressed by the tyrants. But with some care, and missteps on Putin's side, he might be turned around by someone charismatic enough. I'd probably nominate our president, out of all European statesmen he's the best fit.

No, I do not mean a Cold War one.

The Cold War was determined by a very considerable and consistent credible US determination to support its allies. What we are likely to get now is the pre-WWII non-cold-war kind of situations.

Europe might achieve a Cold War with Russia, but only on the condition Europe alone can credibly deter Russia. That's probably also going to require nuclear proliferation of some sort.

Trump's reelection has considerably increased the risk of a major hot war involving most of Europe.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Europe helping could potentially replace USA if it finally find its spine and stand in.
But the big risk is Trump simply lifting sanctions on Russia.
If Trumps just does nothing, it's salvageable. If he goes full support for Putin, that's a disaster.

I fear that is wishful thinking. Germany is economically dying because of sanctions on Russian gas and it will rush to sign a deal that will allow the reopening of Nord Stream.

Not to say that Europe will simply never develop any military capacity, because public opinions have totally unreasonable social expectations that will never make a significant military spending possible. Also because our economies are aging and incapable of renewing themselves.

The more likely is that most exposed Eastern European countries will give everything to Trump in order to sign a bilateral deal offering them protection.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Voted today. Dropped kids off at school then headed to the polling station, so 7:45 or so.

Yes, there is rain (southwest wisconsin), but its a mist like rain.

The local republican headquarters is a block away from the polling station and there was a guy out there holding a trump flag (big flag like you would see in a parade). Pretty sure thats illegal, or if not, its certainly in poor taste. When i left after voting, some guy was arguing with him and pointing at the polling station. 20 minutes later i drove by again and the guy was not there and the flag was leaning up against the building (the other 10+ signs outside the building were still up, like they had been for weeks).

Took me about 5 minutes to vote. I got to move up the main line because they were splitting the main line to three tables based on first letter of last name. My group only had one person in front of me, the other groups had 6+.

Now to delete the stupid voicemails. 3 from 'Donald J Trump', shouldnt get anymore.

Update to this:

Drove by the polling station in the afternoon and the flag waving guy tripled down on it, having two buddies join him. One on the corner, even closer to the polling station.

My guess is it was less than 100 feet from entrance to polling station...as the crow flies. If you measure the path one would take to get to it (it was the back door of city hall), staying on pavement, then maybe it would be more than 100 feet. Then i realized the democrat headquarters were basically the same distance away, in another direction. But with construction and stuff going on at the moment, its less visible, and i very highly doubt they had people out waving flags.

No more voicemails, but still got texts on election day, making sure i vote/voted. Got one call from a volunteer from some organization (didnt pay close enough attention to name, so cant say for certain which side it was), asking me if i voted yet. First thought it was a robo call, but he stuttered so much i knew then it was a live person.

 

[aelf]

I dunno. If Trump campaigns against wokeness, he might pull it off. People lose their minds over that.

Called it.

The margins in swing states are 1-4%. The majority of white people voted for Trump. I think the anti-woke surge, which is connected to xenophobia and the unkosher "r" and "s" words, is a good explanation.

It is a failure of democracy. Many of the people who would vote for Trump think it's their choice, but it's not.

Trump already has the support of billionaires who control large parts of the media. They have figured out how to hack the lizard brain using content. They insist on showing both sides equally, and often not equally but in favour of the (alt-)right. They know that they just need to get it out there to influence fragile minds. Using fear as a tool - insecurity, fear of the other, fear of change.

When the lizard brain is thus manipulated, it does predictable things. In this case, to vote for the person who promises to deal with those fears, whether the promised methods make sense or not. It's like a compulsion. And many haven't developed the ability to resist it. Dictators often use similar methods, like the two minutes of hate.

And then there's this.

Fear and hate will always win against positivity - unless they fail to bury the positivity. I still harboured hope that that isn't true, but it is. Plus you can't out moral crusade the traditional crusaders. When people who preach God for salary are working for the cause of billionaires, the moral arena will be a losing fight. Anti-abortion will win against anti-r***sm any time.

 

[lymond]

I had feared these results for some time now, affecting my psyche for a few weeks leading up. Harris did not run a good campaign. Not entirely her fault as the problem lay in the Dems not forcing Biden out of the race from the beginning- or Biden himself refusing to run again as he promised - such that primaries could be held. Possible that Harris may have won that but at least she could have had time to develop a platform and distance herself from an unpopular president. I held out hope that the majority of Americans would reject Trump and his insanity again. The hope proved to be utterly quixotic.

I still remember the day Obama was elected and just the thrill and positivity on the faces of folks of all colors. That day seems so long ago. The world has been trending to dark times for quite some time, but now the darkness is fully realized.

 

[sophie]

Called it.

The margins in swing states are 1-4%. The majority of white people voted for Trump. I think the anti-woke surge, which is connected to xenophobia and the unkosher "r" and "s" words, is a good explanation.


And then there's this.

Fear and hate will always win against positivity - unless they fail to bury the positivity. I still harboured hope that that isn't true, but it is. Plus you can't out moral crusade the traditional crusaders. When people who preach God for salary are working for the cause of billionaires, the moral arena will be a losing fight. Anti-abortion will win against anti-r***sm any time.

But that’s the thing, abortion protection measures passed in 7 out of 10 states where it was on the ballot, including Missouri, South Dakota, Arizona, and Nevada. It got like 57% of the vote in Florida. People came out for abortion rights. They just didn’t vote for Kamala.

 

[aelf]

But that’s the thing, abortion protection measures passed in 7 out of 10 states where it was on the ballot, including Missouri, South Dakota, Arizona, and Nevada. It got like 57% of the vote in Florida. People came out for abortion rights. They just didn’t vote for Kamala.

Then they must be dumb to think that a Federal ban won't be attempted and doesn't have a good chance of succeeding.

 

[caketastydelish]

Called it.

The margins in swing states are 1-4%. The majority of white people voted for Trump. I think the anti-woke surge, which is connected to xenophobia and the unkosher "r" and "s" words, is a good explanation.


And then there's this.

Fear and hate will always win against positivity - unless they fail to bury the positivity. I still harboured hope that that isn't true, but it is. Plus you can't out moral crusade the traditional crusaders. When people who preach God for salary are working for the cause of billionaires, the moral arena will be a losing fight. Anti-abortion will win against anti-r***sm any time.

the majority of white people vote republican in us presidental general elections, whether the candidate is trump or anyone else. The harder part to explain though is why so many minorities voted for him.

 

[aelf]

Same reasons.

 

[Voidwalkin]

I had feared these results for some time now, affecting my psyche for a few weeks leading up. Harris did not run a good campaign. Not entirely her fault as the problem lay in the Dems not forcing Biden out of the race from the beginning- or Biden himself refusing to run again as he promised - such that primaries could be held. Possible that Harris may have won that but at least she could have had time to develop a platform and distance herself from an unpopular president. I held out hope that the majority of Americans would reject Trump and his insanity again. The hope proved to be utterly quixotic.

I still remember the day Obama was elected and just the thrill and positivity on the faces of folks of all colors. That day seems so long ago. The world has been trending to dark times for quite some time, but now the darkness is fully realized.

Sorry, brother.

 

[Theov]

I had feared these results for some time now, affecting my psyche for a few weeks leading up. Harris did not run a good campaign. Not entirely her fault as the problem lay in the Dems not forcing Biden out of the race from the beginning- or Biden himself refusing to run again as he promised - such that primaries could be held. Possible that Harris may have won that but at least she could have had time to develop a platform and distance herself from an unpopular president. I held out hope that the majority of Americans would reject Trump and his insanity again. The hope proved to be utterly quixotic.

I still remember the day Obama was elected and just the thrill and positivity on the faces of folks of all colors. That day seems so long ago. The world has been trending to dark times for quite some time, but now the darkness is fully realized.

How are mindless word-salads and empty catch phrases not her fault?
She has done nothing to explain her points that didn't not include the words "Trump" and "Donald" or a combination.
Fearmongering is not campaigning.
The only reason people had to vote for her was that she isn't Trump.
On all the major issues she falls flat:
inflation - she's not going to fix that
immigration - she's not going to fix that
crime - she's not going to fix that
women's issues - women voted in higher percentages (57%) Biden than for Harris (54%).

 

[sophie]

Then they must be dumb to think that a Federal ban won't be attempted and doesn't have a good chance of succeeding.

Then you should tell that to Kamala Harris and her merry band of Hillary dead-enders who ran a pro-abortion campaign in a strong economy and somehow still lost on a night where abortion protections won decisively

 

[aelf]

Then you should tell that to Kamala Harris and her merry band of Hillary dead-ender campaign advisors who ran a pro-abortion campaign in a strong economy and somehow still lost on a night where abortion protections won decisively

Because the truth is people don't care enough about abortions as an issue. Maybe they hedged, thinking that they can vote for it on a state level but vote against woke on the federal level.

Watch their hopes get dashed.

 

[aelf]

How are mindless word-salads and empty catch phrases not her fault?

Fearmongering is not campaigning.

Worked for Trump. So those two points are bullfeathers.

 

[caketastydelish]

Then you should tell that to Kamala Harris and her merry band of Hillary dead-enders who ran a pro-abortion campaign in a strong economy and somehow still lost on a night where abortion protections won decisively

Biden ran a campaign appealing to moderate conservatives and independents and beat Trump. You're being politically correct as to why Trump won, but I'm calling it out for what it is: Too many Americans are either incredibly ignorant or have political beliefs that are hateful and/or prejudiced. "At least I'm not a fascist against democracy" should get nearly 100 percent of the vote when the other guy is a fascist against democracy in concrete terms, with an abundance of evidence to prove it. A law abiding criminal prosectuer running against a felon and con man. If people were even remotely reasonable that campaign strategy would have worked with Harris winning in a landslide. It's time to hold people accountable for voting for Trump, in my opinion. Especially when it wasn't just the electoral college but even the popular vote he won comfortably.

 

[Sarin]

Coming up, four years of damage control. And Dems have precious little to work with. If I'm not mistaken...Reps got SCOTUS and narrow majority in both chambers of Congress. This means unless there are some reasonable dissenters doing damage control, Reps can pass anything short of constitutional changes (maybe, I dunno how it works in US, but here constitutional changes require 2/3rd to pass).

Oh boy. You're screwed. Pity that it's likely to screw over us, too.

 

[Voidwalkin]

I think it can be said now. Party chiefs in the Dem party have been putting their finger on the scale on every part of the process of selecting a candidate for too long.

As it turns out, their judgement is not superior to the result of a best by test process. If there were a primary, would Harris have won? No. Would the replacement candidate have a better chance of beating Trump? Yes.

I blame both Pelosi and the general culture that the wishes of the plebs are undesirable and/or somehow strategically inferior to the whims of a very distant political class that doesn't actually seem to have much pulse on America.

 

[JPetroski]

Frankly I think the small group of people who selected Kamala selected her so she would lose. They could have gone with anyone. She was terrible. You couldn't do worse. In fact, you didn't do worse in the 2020 primary. I think they wanted her to lose. There's some very real signs that the economy is in a precarious position. Egregiously precarious. Now, if you're the type of person who consumes the sort of media who would lead you to believe Kamala wasn't a horrible choice and borderline idiot with a clear substance abuse problem, then you'll think I'm crazy, and that's OK. Not here to convince anyone. But I do think that conservatives should be cautious about gloating because they might have just won 4 years in office and lost the next quarter century's worth of elections when they're holding the bag as the house of cards collapses, which I do fully expect to happen during this upcoming presidential term.

 

[sophie]

Coming up, four years of damage control. And Dems have precious little to work with. If I'm not mistaken...Reps got SCOTUS and narrow majority in both chambers of Congress. This means unless there are some reasonable dissenters doing damage control, Reps can pass anything short of constitutional changes (maybe, I dunno how it works in US, but here constitutional changes require 2/3rd to pass).

Oh boy. You're screwed. Pity that it's likely to screw over us, too.

Depends on how the state house races shake out. If the republicans wind up with majorities in 2/3 of state houses they can call a constitutional convention to pass amendments