Emoluments Entanglements

[El_Machinae]

Honestly, this was one of the last posters I'd've expected to be okay with a President creating a system where he could be indirectly bribed.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Federal courts have been struggling with the relatively simple question of whether Trump International Hotel profits derived from foreign governments violates the emoluments clause of the Constitution. [They do.]
Now, it looks as if we may finally get a ruling.



BTW: The govt's argument that the President must have "corrupt intent" is incorrect. What is critical is the intent of the person paying the bribe

Some hotel stay seems like small potatoes to me.

Didn't the Saudis give $1.5 billion to the Bushes and allies over the years?

Now China investing $500 million in a Trump property would cause me to flip a lid.
Something which recently occurred I believe.

The courts need to shut this stuff down hard.

 

[Farm Boy]

Hahaha, ok sommer. Don't mind us, while we casually elect a governor that's ok with settling Senate seats for straight up bribes here. Oh no, whataboutism! L. O. L.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Hahaha, ok sommer. Don't mind us, while we casually elect a governor that's ok with settling Senate seats for straight up bribes here. Oh no, whataboutism! L. O. L.

a disclaimer and a LOL does not change the underlying... which you know, cause you already acknowledged it... with your disclaimer.

Also... that dude is rotting in jail so...

Also... that dude is on the verge of being pardoned by none other than...

So I think my point is still lingering, stubborn and defiant, unwelcome as it may be...

 

[El_Machinae]

Hahaha, ok sommer. Don't mind us, while we casually elect a governor that's ok with settling Senate seats for straight up bribes here. Oh no, whataboutism! L. O. L.

Huh? People elected him after knowing what he did? Oh people found out what kind of politician he was after he got elected.

The Trump that got elected:
- promised his tax returns
- promised to become so presidential
- promised a wall for $10 billion
- had his kid promise "I'm just going to be a daughter"
- promised to not interact with the Trump Organization

Sometimes a politician turns out to be what people don't expect, so the treatment of that politician will change when the new face is shown.

Do'nt worry, I know where you stand on Trump's acceptability as a President

 

[Berzerker]

You're wrong three times:
1) From Dictionary.com defining emolument: "profit, salary, or fees from office or employment; compensation for services."

Profit in this context means profiting from their office, ie gifts or bribes. Not profit from selling wine, whiskey or a night or two in a hotel room. The Federalist Paper dealing with the matter referred to gifts and titles.

2) "nobody in the government" is not "no Person holding any Office." Holding office means:

Nobody in government office if you like, but I'm sure the restriction applies to anyone in government.

3) It sounds like by "other countries," you mean people in other countries. The Constitution prohibits receiving emoluments from foreign States, i.e. from foreign governments, not every Tomas, Jacques, and Harriet.

We are talking about foreign governments.

Beating this dead horse over and over again is becoming tiresome. I have better things to do. C'ya.

You were repeating your argument before me

Honestly, this was one of the last posters I'd've expected to be okay with a President creating a system where he could be indirectly bribed.

If you're talking about me, the bribe is not paying for a hotel room.

Some hotel stay seems like small potatoes to me.

Didn't the Saudis give $1.5 billion to the Bushes and allies over the years?

Now China investing $500 million in a Trump property would cause me to flip a lid.
Something which recently occurred I believe.

The courts need to shut this stuff down hard.

There's the bribery

 

[El_Machinae]

And the granting of copyrights and trademark protections to family members!

Family members *who hold power* in the administration.

Seriously

 

[Farm Boy]

Nono, the one we'r going to have next year boys. And he will win, like Trump did, people know about The crooked, they just don't care or will pretend not to see. Like Trump. The problem is balance or the lack thereof. Not as bad as Dailey, still not good. Extrapolate able to the federal, as usual. Two houses, the court, and the white house is too much. And would be the other way too. Unless you're the sort that pretends not to see. It is literally always this game. But sometimes it breaks.


Step it up!

 

[El_Machinae]

I heart you

 

[Farm Boy]

Where you got that thing hiding in that blue tank?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Nono, the one we'r going to have next year boys. And he will win, like Trump did, people know about The crooked, they just don't care or will pretend not to see. Like Trump. The problem is balance or the lack thereof. Not as bad as Dailey, still not good. Extrapolate able to the federal, as usual. Two houses, the court, and the white house is too much. And would be the other way too. Unless you're the sort that pretends not to see. It is literally always this game. But sometimes it breaks.


Step it up!

I thought he wanted to be the treasurer, not Senator... Also, the exostence of individual scummy Democrats doesnt absolve the Republicans in power from wholesale aiding, abetting and enabling Trump's scumminess.

In any case... the Anaheim Angels are a bad team... the Baltimore Orioles are a bad team. Declaring "both teams are bad!" just doesn't cover it, sorry.

 

[Farm Boy]

Unfortunately, both being bad is of critical import. This is where the baseball breaks down. This isn't just a game, it isn't just money, it's literally for all the "effin" power. Checks and balances requires it. You're watching them not work right now because of lack of federal balance. The moderates have no power, they can't cull the stupid effectively.* That is a Republican thing, yes. But it's definitely also a Democrat thing. Which makes it an ideologue thing. I mean seriously, have we forgotten the machines? Do you not believe me when I tell you our pathetic state government is about to eliminate its soil and water conservation administration? Does anyone care? No, there is no balance. Screw the gulf, apparently. Madigan literally will have to die before our state has a prayer of being less than idiotic, and it's a long hope even then, it might get worse. Good odds on that, really.

Pritzker's upcoming governorship is totes on topic, and it's for exactly the reasons we're mad at Assclown. There's not enough balance. You swing hard, tee it up!

*we'll be worse off for McCain's loss when it comes, regardless of if we hate him or not.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Do you not believe me when I tell you our pathetic state government is about to eliminate its soil and water conservation administration? Does anyone care?

Well as I understand it, that's Rauner’s (R) thing and the Democrats are the ones constantly trying to stop him... so Pritzker's election would fix that particular problem... but hey, you're the one who's actually living there... so if you think both are bad, I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

 

[Farm Boy]

Budgets axed seventy percent in the last fifteen years by the legislature, don't let them fool you that it's all Rauner, he's 2018s new symptom in a progressive disease.

 

[Zkribbler]

Court rules that Emoluments Clause Applies To Trump And His Hotel Profits

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-emoluments-clause_us_5b58bbb5e4b0de86f492ca16

President Donald Trump is subject to the Constitution’s emoluments clause, and any profit, gain or advantage that his hotel in Washington, D.C., obtains from a foreign or domestic government would implicate the clause, according to a ruling by a federal court on Wednesday.

This decision, by Judge Peter Messitte for the U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland, allows a lawsuit brought by the attorneys general of Maryland and Washington, D.C., to proceed against Trump, whose effort to dismiss the challenge was denied. The lawsuit claims that he is in violation of the Constitution’s emoluments clause, which bars federal officeholders from receiving financial or material benefits from foreign governments or domestic government bodies.

Count 1 of the upcoming Articles of Impeachment

 

[metalhead]

Berzerker, if you are interested, the judge issued a lengthy written opinion explaining how he came to the conclusion that the proceeds received from foreign government officials staying at the DC Trump hotel constitute an Emolument within the meaning of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution. It should clear things up for you.

 

[Berzerker]

Can you quote the judge's opinion on the matter? The plaintiffs aint gonna win...

 

[metalhead]

Dude, just look it up, it's not hard to find.

 

[Berzerker]

But its too hard for you to quote? I'm not inclined to hunt down your evidence but I did read part of the link within Zkribbler's and saw a judge ruled a lawsuit can go forward. That means we'll find out if the courts say office holders cant own hotels occupied by paying foreign officials. That would ban office holders from doing any business with them.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Coming soon, Trump and republicans try to alter or axe Emoluments clause.