Empathy, Get Some

[metalhead]

Whining about the ultimate motives of charitable actors is also selfish. Better to rejoice in any charity.

Is it "whining" because it's something you don't like? And how, exactly, is it selfish to point this out?

I'm not going to rejoice in charity, because most charity shouldn't be necessary in a society as wealthy as ours. That we're relying on people's selfish motivations as a way to care for the less fortunate is absurd.

Is charity to feel good about yourself less of a selfish gesture? More heart-felt, okay. But ultimately any less selfish?

Not really, but at least you aren't being tricked into it.

 

[warpus]

In the absence of such studies all I can go on is my lifetime of experience. In my career selling cars I met literally thousands of people. Of them there were relatively few that could really be described as "of substantial means," bearing in mind that for some fraction of them I filled out credit applications so I had regular feedback...my judgements of people's means were verified, not pure theory. The customers that went on my list (people who if they stepped off a curb at the wrong moment would prompt me to look down and adjust my radio) over the years were almost exclusively drawn from that minority who I determined (or guessed, if we never got to the credit application) were of substantial means. So, based on experience I think the probability of encountering a high order jerk is much higher among people of substantial means. Again, in the absence of proper studies that's all I have to go on, so I have to muddle along as best I can.

If this was a study, then that would be an incredibly bad way to select a sample. Just sayin

I get that a sociopath-like personality makes it easier for you to succeed in the business world, move up, and make money. But there are so many factors at play here.

This isn't exactly what you're asking for, but perhaps it's a data point to throw onto the fire:

CNBC, June 2015 - Are poor kids more charitable than rich ones?
Forbes, October 2014 - Wealthy Americans are giving less of their incomes to charity, while poor are donating more
The Atlantic, April 2013 - Why the rich don't give to charity
Psychology Today, August 2010 - Why are the poor more generous?

Nice, but this seems to only be looking at the U.S., not the whole planet. Maybe the cut-throat capitalist "me first" mentality that American capitalism and a lot of society is built up on contributes to this.

Or maybe it is a human-wide phenomenon and I didn't read the articles closely enough

In the end I'm just saying it does not surprise me when a human being steps up and helps someone else, no matter how much money that person has to his or her name

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Also, class warfare is ugly.

I don't think that has ever stopped it from being successfully waged one way or the other. It mostly just stopped one side from doing so, because it is more visible and more complicated.

Not really, but at least you aren't being tricked into it.

Being tricked into being charitable. Well there is a thing we will want to avoid.

 

[BvBPL]

And how, exactly, is it selfish to point this out?

Pissing on the very idea of charity only serves your own self-aggrandizement.

 

[Lexicus]

Pissing on the very idea of charity only serves your own self-aggrandizement.

Whereas extolling it serves as a way to make you feel good about how compassionate you are while doing absolutely nothing about the underlying social problems that make charity necessary in the first place

 

[BvBPL]

That's why a holistic approach addressing both cause and consequence is necessary.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Nice, but this seems to only be looking at the U.S., not the whole planet. Maybe the cut-throat capitalist "me first" mentality that American capitalism and a lot of society is built up on contributes to this.

They are, and it does. Americans sometimes talk about, for example, "socialized" medicine as though Scandinavia, Canada, England, and Japan were all behind the Iron Curtain. But the countries that the US tends to be compared to, and come up short against in things like criminal justice, public infrastructure, primary education, and health care, are capitalist democracies, not authoritarian communists. During our primaries last year, a Republican voter expressed concern to me about Bernie Sanders by comparing his form of socialism to the Soviet Union's. American capitalism has gone 'round the bend, as the Brits might say.

 

[Lexicus]

They are, and it does. Americans sometimes talk about, for example, "socialized" medicine as though Scandinavia, Canada, England, and Japan were all behind the Iron Curtain. But the countries that the US tends to be compared to, and come up short against in things like criminal justice, public infrastructure, primary education, and health care, are capitalist democracies, not authoritarian communists. During our primaries last year, a Republican voter expressed concern to me about Bernie Sanders by comparing his form of socialism to the Soviet Union's. American capitalism has gone 'round the bend, as the Brits might say.

The irony being, of course, that the political economy espoused by the Republican Party and created by their policies far more closely resembles the Soviet Union than anything Bernie Sanders wants.

 

[warpus]

I would be very interested to see poor vs rich empathy comparisons in places like Japan, Germany, Canada, New Zealand, etc.

 

[Hygro]

There's stoner thoughts like "charity for heaven isn't very virtuous" which carries some value but building in an entire ego rejection of religious people being charitable because of your construct of their motivations is ultimately about you and your needs.

 

[Commodore]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/36293...-ariana-grande-terror-attack-suicide-bombing/



I know who has my back when something goes down and it's not billionaires.

Politicizing a tragedy like this sure shows a pretty big lack of empathy.

 

[Lexicus]

Politicizing a tragedy like this sure shows a pretty big lack of empathy.

Politicizing it? As if it weren't political to begin with?

 

[mrt144]

Politicizing a tragedy like this sure shows a pretty big lack of empathy.

I'm raising the profile of society's greatest heroes - those who gain nothing by helping other people in need. Sorry you don't like my approach.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

It's not just that rich people are jerks, or poor people. It's almost everybody, in my opinion. Almost no one helps out anyone any more, and all of those people should be ashamed of themselves for not helping out another human in time of a great need. People are too into themselves, and it's always "me, me, me".

To illustrate, I stopped at an horrific car accident a few years ago, before the paramedics had arrived (as a former nurse, that's the kind of thing I do), and did my best to help out while we waited for them. Cars were driving by on the highway, slowing to look at the carnage, but no one would stop. I can remember asking myself, as I tried to keep a woman from bleeding to death, why no one was stopping. Finally a man stopped and came to help. He had no idea of first aid, but he did what he could, and what I told him to do with the woman, and I went off to help someone more badly injured. A few minutes later, the paramedics arrived.

One person out of I don't know how many cars that drove by watching a small woman crawl around a car wreck, calling for help when their windows were open and they could hear me, stopped to help. Some waved back and then drove on. I completely lost my faith in human nature that day. We're all pond scum in a general sense, and some of us have no virtue or redeeming qualities whatsoever. Good Samaritan laws being what they are, I was required to stop and help (I would have anyway), but the man who stopped wasn't. He stopped out of compassion and concern and he probably saved a life. One of how many that drove by? I was too busy to count cars, but the highway was busy. What kind of people are we that only one person would stop out of all of those people who went by looking at that carnage? Someone did call the paramedics when the accident happened, but didn't stick around. What kind of person leaves an accident like that?

What does that say about us as human beings?

I applaud the homeless man for helping out. I hope that he gets some kind of humanitarian award for doing it. At the very least, he's shown the world that some people have some merit as human beings.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

What does that say about us as human beings?

That, in fact, humans are not the fantasy kitsch product advertised on several avenues? That, just as the fantasy, this has to be nurtured rather than just happening because wouldn't it be nice?

Fun fact: East Germans are a lot more likely to help out when encountering a stranded car than West Germans. True story.
Take from that what you will.

 

[warpus]

To illustrate, I stopped at an horrific car accident a few years ago, before the paramedics had arrived (as a former nurse, that's the kind of thing I do), and did my best to help out while we waited for them. Cars were driving by on the highway, slowing to look at the carnage, but no one would stop. I can remember asking myself, as I tried to keep a woman from bleeding to death, why no one was stopping.

Honestly.. I think a lot of people are afraid of being dragged into some mess, getting sued, etc. If they just keep walking/driving/ignoring the problem, they will not be involved and it can't affect them negatively at all. There's been cases of people stopping to help, and then something going wrong and then getting sued by the family of the injured person.. People know this, and so they ignore the problem and keep moving

I think it's also a byproduct of our high-paced materialistic society. People are thinking "me me me" and have a busy life so they don't have time to think about others and to help out

 

[Narz]

If you are ever nearby and get damaged don't remind me of this preference or I'll have to just let you die.

Not exactly a preference, just choosing the statistically most likely group to save me (young, single men are most likely to be those type of heroes, makes evolutionary sense).

If I was going to wish to be saved by someone I'd choose a gorgeous 20 year old women who, when I asked, "How can I ever repay you?" would cast her eyes towards my crotch & raise her eyebrows.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Not exactly a preference, just choosing the statistically most likely group to save me (young, single men are most likely to be those type of heroes, makes evolutionary sense).

If I was going to wish to be saved by someone I'd choose a gorgeous 20 year old women who, when I asked, "How can I ever repay you?" would cast her eyes towards my crotch & raise her eyebrows.

LOL...so again if it's me that happens along you are gonna be disappointed.

 

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: Please keep it clean, gentlemen.

 

[shadowplay]

I wouldn't want my life either in the hands of a homeless person or a billionaire.

If I had to choose who to save me I'd choose a lower-middle class, blue-collar male between the ages of 20 and 40.

...here I come to save the day!