End of Empires - N3S III

Lucky you, I got delayed on the highway home and won't start until tomorrow. But that's about as far as the tolerance extends. :p
 
Orders are in! I really need to just write a damn story about Martuska.
 
In The Hall of Portents
~Prior to the Election of the Grand-Patriarch

-​

It has been several days since the funeral of the Grand-Patriarch, a somber affair commending his soul to Opporia, that he may find swift journey to Iralliam, the joy of the blessed. Yet the funeral was not so somber as the convocation of clerics the archpriest Aisen, custodian of the tomb of the Prophet was obliged to attend. As was customary prior to the election of a new Grand Patriarch, the archpriests met in seclusion in a chapel known as the Hall of Portents, to discuss the concerns of the Church and discern the will of Opporia. This involved much droning, from Aisens point of view, from younger sons of the great families of the Uggor, or collateral members of the old Liealb nobility who had been granted positions in the college who seemed concerned as much on relations with the Ayasi and the High Lords in far off Gaci, as they were with the propagation and defence of the sacred faith. The rabble-rousing demagogue Sokar, who had turned the hand of the fifth Gaci to call the Church to a council was a blustering fool, relying much more on the strength of his voice and righteous indignation than on the clarity of his words and the virtue of his doctrine, but he spoke truly when he protested corruption in the Church. Corruption that the old archpriests would not face, but which Aisen, by Opporia, vowed to show to them.

"If there are any who would speak unto this college, that Opporia may grant us wisdom, come thus and speak."

The archcanon Kirejar Assayas, with his hundred years and faltering voice called for any who would have their say.

"If I may your eminence."

"Venerable Archpriest Aisen... Ujayasir, yes.. I believe that is your name. Speak, the college hears you"

"I thank you your excellency"

Archpriest Aisen walked up to the front of the room turning to see the throng of brown robed clerics looking attentively at him waiting for what he had to say. His reputation for charity preceeded him, he knew that, perhaps they were expecting a sermon on the need of the Church to assist the poor. They were, this time at least, mistaken.

"Venerable Brothers, the Church is ancient and magnificent, and yet how many of you can deny with truth in your souls that it has suffered under the attacks of the enemy. Who amongst you with zeal in your spirits, can say with truth that those of us who have been charged to lead the army of light, have stood idle upon the walls as the smoke of the enemy has seeped under the gates!

Too many amongst us, have grown comfortable and complacent with the patronage of the Ayasi, with the legacy of ancient family names, with shining temples and the glory of Opios. Yet as our predecessors and now us have basked in earthly praise, the good name and dignity of the Grand-Patriarchate has been dragged through the mud and trampled upon. Where once the word of the Successor of the Prophet was rightly treated as law, and his wisdom was exalted by all, now this most sacred office is mocked openly in the streets, and petulant preachers, you know of whom I speak, spew out their errors and call for the abolition of the office! The errors sown by the enemy in ages past have been left to fester within the Church, and without, for even as Sokar and his acolytes preach error in demanding the abolition of the Patriarchates, they speak truth in protesting the corruption that lingers amongst us! So too did the one who's office we must find shoes to fill speak truth when he lamented the festering errors that chip away at the fortress of truth, and even now call men away from the light with their deceit and false promises.

We must all do penance for this great sin of negligence brothers, penance. We must pray to the Lord of Light, the living god and bringer of truth that we may hear his voice and see his signs and choose a man who can renew the Church, and bring the sword of heaven unto all who would serve the darkness. This man has a difficult task, whoever we choose, he must not shirk duty for what is easy nor must he shy away from confronting evil in the dark crevices and hidden places where it lurks. He must guide the Church towards true reform, for truly it is self evident that the institutional structure that is supposed to serve the Patriarchs has failed them. He must spur the faithful unto greater zeal, that they may be inspired out of divine love to bring the truth to those who dwell in darkness and to reform their own lives in holiness. Perhaps most importantly of all he must, must take up the staff of authority that has been given to him and make use of it, chasing the thieves and merchants out of the sacred house of Opporia where they even steal the patrimony of the Church, and sell out its infallible truths. The Grand Patriarch is the Vicar of our Lord on Earth, the most exalted of men, the father of Kings and Emperors, and yet he and the other patriarchs, as if they were petulant children, or perhaps mere functionaries at the Ayasi's service, were dragged to Gaci to council, at the word of that ignorant rabble rousing demagogue. The shame! We can only thank Our Lord and his divine protection that the Ayasi did not seek to impose heresy upon the single family that is the Church of Iralliam.

Now to those who may be screaming protest in their minds, I do not say we must not work with the powers of state. Indeed the Empire is a great protector and servant to Our Lord and an instrument in his plans. But we must not become thralls to the world, nor an appendange of the Empire. Empires rise and fall brothers, and that which shackles itself to the powers that be in this age, will find itself a widow in the next. What the Church needs brothers, is a man who can bring the fire of renewal and zeal into the Church, preserving the truth of the faith, while also reforming the structures that have so failed the patriarchates and bringing the light of Opporia to the heathens who gather on our doorstep. The necessity of choice falls unto you my brothers, and one of this college must be the man to whom the mantle of this task falls."

Aisen walked back to his seat. Utter silence filled the Hall of Portents. His steps echoed off the ancient mosaics and frescos that adorned its walls. All around him the stupefied eyes of the archpriests stared at him, as if an elephant had charged in the room and struck them in the face. As Aisen sat down, the old archcanon lifted up his ancient voice trembling.

"Is there any other who would speak"

That's when the argument began....


-


ooc: I had some free time so I decided to throw in one last piece of writing while I had the chance.
 
Haiao is the Light, that much is obvious.

OOC Religious Note: Haiao originated as a Farouese Sun Deity, but in modern usage is viewed either as synonymous with Opporia (much like Arab Christians refer to the Christian God as 'Allah') or as one of the Ancestors in Orthodox Aitahism, a celestial courtier of Aitah.
 
Story PM'd a while ago with orders:

The army marched briskly across the open savannah. Far in the distance to the west, just on the edge of sight, smoke from the city of Odra hung in the air. The army had left it behind two days past. Like a sinewy line pointing to where the city lay, the vast supply train trundled along behind the main military force. General Jirman was glad to be free of the city and on the march again, but the vulnerability of the open grasslands disturbed him. Trahana cavalry combed the distant hills in all directions for rivals. Still, this region of so few trees still felt foreign. The old war in Haina had been so different, fought as it was in the tropical jungles of the south, and there he had been forged. How could men live and defend themselves so exposed?

Well, as to that, he thought, few men did live here. Even at its height, the Dulama Empire had never reached the small trading outpost of Odra, nor attempted to tame the grasslands in which it sat. Elephants roamed the wild grasses, and other beasts, and the ivory trade was known to be brisk. Some soldiers had sent back ivory trinkets to their families, though General Jirman had no family to whom to send one. But no nation had seen it necessary to control the source of the ivory trade before, and Dulama interests had run elsewhere. Since the near-collapse of that empire, the population of the grasses had dwindled further. Only the occasional small village appeared on the horizon along the undulating road.

For that, General Jirman was grateful, and for the skilled cavalrymen who kept his flanks protected. Scouting by cavalry had not been an unknown practice in the Haina war. Yet here it was far more necessary, and Jirman’s unease with the openness of the land helped to guarantee that the scouts were on high alert.

After many more days of marching, the abandonment seemed to change. In the distance, for the first time in many pola[1], a structure of stone rather than a hut of woven grass came into view. An old Dulama outpost, marking what was once the edge of their empire. Their scouts said this particular outpost appeared abandoned. Beyond the hill on which it sat, they said, the land flattened out and became in some places soft, heavy and wet. From that, General Jirman did not need a Dulama ruin to tell him they had arrived at the lands of the pirate emperor in Saigh. The earlier portion of this expedition had been nothing; the real war was now to begin.

----

A merchant’s ship arrived at the port in Saigh. Its captain bore a message sealed in wax and said to be for the eyes of Paitlo himself alone. But the captain had broken the wax seal of the Empire of Trahana and read it himself before coming within the bay and under the “protection” of Paitlo’s navy. Foreknowledge of diplomacy had never served a merchant who owned his own ship wrong. And this merchant planned to spend very little time in Saigh, only long enough to unload and load up again. Gialla seemed a safe destination, and the Vithana-ruled lands beyond. Wars are bad for business, and there could be no doubt that the letter he bore was a declaration of war.


[1]Trahana unit of measure, approximately a half-mile.
Click to expand...
 
Luckymoose said:
There is only one Light and She is not Opporia.
Click to expand...

The Light of Creation is not itself Opporia, but rather the light proceeds from him(1). You are quite right in noting the distinction between the light, and the power from which it flows (to use a metaphor Opporia is the sun, and the divine light consists of the rays that come from it)

That said, the light definitely is not an incarnate being, and definitely any of the five Aitah's, who at best are merely deluded women, and at worst are instruments of the darkness manipulated into leading men astray.

-

1: he is used in referring to something that is neuter, as is customary in the English language. Opporia is neither male or female.
 
It is unwise to speak ill of Aitah. While the light of truth flows forth from Haiao, the Red Lady illuminates a path to salvation.
 
Jehoshua, I'd like to talk to you about a few topics that have concerned me as of late, regarding the flavour which you have imparted ever since joining N3S as the Church of Iralliam.

In short, I feel that you are essentially playing the Church of Iralliam in a very similar manner to the way you play the Catholic Church in Capto Iugulum. I feel that you are writing of Iralliam as if it were Earth's Roman Catholicism. Your past NESing experience, as far as I understand, is entirely in Capto Iugulum as the Papacy. That is part of the reason that I am concerned that you are playing the Grandpatriarchate in an extremely similar manner. However, the list of things that have led me to bear these concerns is somewhat larger than that. For a brief overview of a few things that have led me to feel this way, let me highlight a few things from your recent characterization and fleshing-out of Iralliam.


The Church uses an otherwise-dead liturgical language.

The Grandpatriarch is elected by a Clerical College of other archpriests of the Church.

The Grandpatriarch is the 'Vicar of our Lord on Earth'.

The Church is described as being universal in nature.

The Church's moral teachings are similarly absolute and universal in nature.

The Church has a conception of salvation, and is extremely concerned about achieving it for all.

The Church has a taste for fresco art.

The Church describes an afterlife nearly identical to that of Christianity.

The Church propose the existence of natural law.

The Church possesses canon law.

The Church teaches of the existence of a soul, similar to that of the Abrahamic tradition.

The Church has a very active concern in converting all of its neighbours.

Also, you referred to the Grandpatriarch as a Pontiff.


Now any one of these things on their own could likely be disregarded. However, with all of these things together, I feel very concerned that you are transforming this organization into an ersatz version of a real-world faith.

Perhaps my understanding of Iralliam, as it is practiced in the Holy Moti Empire, is incorrect and it really is as you describe it. I have a rather different view that is, in several places, at odds with that expressed in your recent posts.

The world of N3S is very much unlike our own. We speak different languages, we have different cultures. Our people and faiths are very different, and I feel that you are creating something with all too many parallels with real life Earth, which bothers and concerns me.

You're also using a great deal of real life terminology, which is a secondary issue. The Greek 'Catholicon', for example, is particularly egregious, especially in a world where Greece has never existed in any form. Other similarly out-of-place words include Narthex and Aedicule. Certainly we might reuse English words, as that's the language of the forum, but inserting Greek and Latin is out of place, with a word of Moti, or even Old Thearakean, would be much more fitting the story's atmosphere.

Please note that in saying this, I want to help you create a unique Iralliam, one that is truly native to the setting of N3S and possessed of a unique nature all of its own.

I still have a lot to compliment in your work. I quite liked the Thirty Dictates of Kleo. I do suspect, however, that many of these dictates were made long after Kleo's death. Third-Gaci did radically reshape the faith's practice, so it's possible that the sections on the Church, and regarding Judgement, were later edits made for political ends. It seems unlikely that Kleo would say such things, given his nature as a healer and pacifist. His core tenets seemed to revolve around Love, Duty, Loyalty, Forgiveness, and Acceptance.

Also, I greatly appreciate the level of detail you've put into the stories. As always, the detail is rich and vibrant, and I do look forward to seeing more. Hopefully I will be able to do some more writing of my own, allowing me to express more details about Iralliam, Aitahism, and the manners in which these two faiths are practiced, often in combination, in Helsia.
 
Lets go through your concerns. Firstly lets point out the invalid points of reference you made.

The Church has a conception of salvation, and is extremely concerned about achieving it for all.

The Church teaches of the existence of a soul, similar to that of the Abrahamic tradition.

The Church has a very active concern in converting all of its neighbours.

Also, you referred to the Grandpatriarch as a Pontiff.
Click to expand...

Excepting the reference to the Grandpatriarch as a Pontiff, which I simply did not make, These concepts were part of the concept of the Church of Iralliam before I joined. Indeed if you read back, you find that the name Iralliam itself refers to a paradisiac heaven which was established at the foundation of the religion, while the religious brief on the front page clearly states that Iralliam has an evangelical impulse.

As to the remaining summations of yours

The Church uses an otherwise-dead liturgical language.

The Grandpatriarch is elected by a Clerical College of other archpriests of the Church.

The Grandpatriarch is the 'Vicar of our Lord on Earth'.

The Church is described as being universal in nature.

The Church has a taste for fresco art.

The Church propose the existence of natural law.

The Church possesses canon law.
Click to expand...

I will go through these one by one.

1: Iralliam is an ancient religion, an ancient language as such seemed appropriate. Just as Buddhists use pali, and Buddhists and Hindu's use Sanskrit, Zoroastrians use their Avestan, Muslims use their Arabic and Catholics use their Latin. Heck even the amish use an archaic dialect of german. A sacred language is a near universal characteristic in most organised religions, and was far more common than using the vernacular until modern times and its trend to reject the traditional (separation of the sacred of the profane being intrinsic to religion in general)

2: The means of election of a Grandpatriarch was non-existent previously, so I decided to go with something somewhat familiar. Considering the Church uses patriarchates very much like greek orthodoxy (which is incidentally why I decided to use greek sounding terms when describing architecture and didn't decide to go creating new moti or liealb terms for the same. Why not call an aedicule an aedicule when that is precisely what is being described and when the whole architectural point is peripheral to the religion anyway), I decided a group of exalted priests in the Holy City was a reasonable enough means of election. Particularly considering we only have four other patriarchs all very distant from Opios, no well ingrained monastic practice, and no bishop analogues. There is likewise no actual detail as to the clerical structure (from what das told me, one does exist but has not been defined) save that it seemingly is not hereditary.

3: The use of the term "vicar of the lord on earth" is actually a reflection of his former near absolute authority on matters religious. In words that were not mine, once his word was law at least on matters religious. Such authority quite reasonably would be established by virtue of an association with the deity involved. Indeed in the absence of such a religious association I doubt Iralliam would of stayed as a unified religion, as compared to splitting on national lines like Eastern Orthodoxy did IRL, or into a multiplicity of sects.

4: Any religion worth its salt considers its teachings universal. That applies for Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and others alike. I'm not going to make Iralliam an exception, particularly when historically it has already been established previously that the prophets words are considered infallible, and when the Church has had heresies that it has clearly condemned historically (both things which presume a sense that the Church's teachings are universal within Iralliam).

5: If you associate fresco with Catholicism, be my guest. Its a false association (Catholics use all known means of architectural adornment) and since I happen to like religious wall painting through that medium I'll continue to use the term where appropriate to describe wall art to give the churches of Iralliam a bit more colour and life to them.

6: Natural law is indeed a Catholic concept. I decided to introduce it because I'm familiar with it and because from my background searches Iralliam seemed to be a more rationalist religion than say Machaianism and Indugahor, and somewhat wary of mysticism. In the absence of an overarching mysticism I thought it reasonable that some sort of natural law approach would evolve in Iralliamite exegesis, since in the absence of a pure mystic religion, or a clearly established prophetic law written in a large book in the style of the Torah, that sort of development seemed, well, natural.

7: Canon law as a term is Christian (I used it rather than creating some random term a priori, again Im not big on creating random terms that have no meaning divorced from this NES when a suitable term exists already to describe what Im trying to get across), religious law however is common to most faiths. The eastern religions have the concept (apparently in Theravada it is frowned upon to sleep on a large comfortable bed) as obviously do Zoroastrianism, islam, Judaism and others.

-

Now moving on from the refutations. Firstly I understand you have your own position on religious matters as they apply in Helsia. Secondly, I understand you may have had your own previous interpretation on what Iralliam was before I joined, as sort of shows in your statements regarding the prophet (who says anything I said is contradictory to love, duty, forgiveness and loyalty, although acceptance of the evil of the dark God Istria obviously is anathema to Iralliam. That's part and parcel of a dualistic religion and again its something that pre-existed my involvement here). However since I run the Church as it stands, its not your place to determine its practice. Rather its your job to manage your nation, and deal with any issues that pertain to it as you see fit. I'm sure I would love to help you create a unique Helsia, one that is truly native to the setting of N3S and possessed of a unique nature all of its own, but I understand that its not my place to direct how you manage your own affairs.

-

Now as to my vision of Iralliam. As I have said I fully intend on maintaining continuity with everything that has preceded my involvement. I have not, and will not, change anything that has been established about Iralliam (its agrarianist, dualistic nature is here to stay), nor will I make it some pale copy of Catholicism (indeed if we must use analogies, I see in terms much closer to a fusion of Eastern Orthodoxy, Zoroastrianism, and certain aspects of Hinduism and Shingon Buddhism than in terms of Catholicism). At the same time however I am not going to shy away from establishing organisational concepts that occur in religions in the real world within Iralliam, where they are appropriate and rational to the circumstance the Church finds itself in, just because you or anyone else has some aesthetic aversion to it. Nor will I avoid terminology associated with religions in real life in favour of creating new words that to my mind do not fit in with the naming schema already established (wheres your protest at the term Patriarch? that's a Greek term for you). You may not like the direction I am bringing Iralliam (much more emphasis on its evangelical component, and a move towards restoring the formerly absolute Grand Patriarchal authority that existed over matters religious) or the aspects that are similar to certain faiths in the real world, but with regards to the latters its erroneous to lay the blame entirely on me (the inquisition analogue (the order of faith), the patriarchal system, and its core doctrine for example did not originate with me), and with regards to the former its very much not my problem.

EDIT: Oh and if you think I intend to play Iralliam like the papacy in CI, than you are very much mistaken. The papacy in CI has political concerns at the forefront of its mind, whereas in this game the internal dynamic of the Church, and the spreading of the religion are the main priorities. Oh and CI is not my sole NESing experience, I have played in some other NES's that are no longer extant incidentally as normal nation-states. Thing is I only tend to play a few games at a time for my own sanity, and so I can put more into each individual game. So I am rarely in more than two games at once.
 
I haven't read all your stories (Whoo, Phd...), but you seem to have hit the source religions on the head (However vague it was), and I really don't mind what plans/directions you take it. Evolving the religion is essential to letting you have some creative control. So long as its not too jarring for everyone else.

It was something I had semi-planned out (i.e. evolving the religion), but I wanted to essentially convert more of the centre of the cradle and then force/create a theological split. Just for the fun story elements, and of course letting others have some creative control over the 'brand' of Irraliam in their nation.

EDIT: Heck, I'm pretty sure when I first started I wanted a very dualistic religion but it moved a bit towards, hey that evil guys evil right? Lets hate.
 
That's something I noticed too, Kal'thzar - it looks like it evolved in a way that I thought was similar to Zoroastrianism's own evolution over the centuries, but well, why shouldn't it (just to be clear, I understand you're not arguing against it either)? I don't find it clashes with my view of Iralliam either - at least, the orthodox, churchly variety of it. Do note that it already had an ecumenical council of sorts under the Ayasi's auspices before Jehoshua joined...

I will note that the Holy Moti Empire traditionally favours statues as an art element. I don't recall if fresco was brought up before, but it doesn't strike me as jarring in the context. It might be a recent development.

The Church's universalism and existence of canon law strike me as rather implicit. We had an active missionary campaign for centuries, if sometimes (and indeed still) checked for political reasons, and Fifth-Frei's World Council was essentially about canon law.

The one thing that did seem a bit odd to me is the vicar thing, but ultimately, the issue of exactly where the Grandpatriarch's authority is derived from was not covered in detail before, unless I am forgetting something. So, it may as well be that. Although, using different terminology (not made up, but using less common substitutes) might be a good idea anyway to make it more distinct.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Nikolai II
Let's compare empires!
2 3
Replies
57
Views
3K
moysturfurmer
M
Smayo
  • Poll Poll
Improving Endeavours
Replies
15
Views
1K
The_goggles_do_nothing
The_goggles_do_nothing
Mudkip1001
Disable Distant Land Civs
Replies
2
Views
452
Mudkip1001
Mudkip1001
A
  • Locked
Best Historical Books for Civ Fans?
Replies
3
Views
345
Birdjaguar
Birdjaguar
Daftpanzer
DaftRTOR - A Story Untold
8 9 10
Replies
198
Views
22K
Terrance888
Terrance888
Back
Top Bottom