Estonians need your help! (voting)

[silver 2039]

Personally I think this is the stupidest thing ever. Its just a statue....if your'e gonna kill each other and destroy stuff at least do it over something vaugely more important.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I have very complex views on this sensitive matter...

I think that Estonia, as a soveregin country, has the right to move any momuments as they please. If Estonia would simply move, with all the necessary honors, the momument to War Memorial Cementary - then it is, IMHO, okay.

What is NOT okay (again IMHO), is Estonians promoting plain hysteria against Soviet soliders, who, you see, turn out to be just "a gang of thieves and maraduers." Considering stuff like that, the memorial incident has a MUCH more dark meaning... I know that Estonian hysterics is answered with equally horrible hysterics on Russia's part. Still, what's the point of all these scandals?

Estonia shows a bit of political infantilism just now, based on various complexes and phobias. Stop fighting symbols of dead times - especially if these symbols do mean much to someone. Really, even Valdas Adamkus has given a piece of advice to Estonia not to try to rewrite history.

(Russia, in turn, shows political cinism. Really, I think that Russian hysteric-makers realise that their hysteria certainly will not cause Estonia to leave the momument in peace - in fact, it will do the opposite. Their hysteria is a product for in-Russia use...)

I can understand that the day Red Army entered Tallinn in not a case for celebration in Estonia. But, really, why it is a day of mourning? After all, the Red Army did push Nazi troops from the city, and so, the day fascist troops where pushed from Tallinn is a day of mourning in Estonia. This is just plain stupid.

And I think Estonians must realise, that these simple Soviet soliders, in the honor of whom that memorial is built, are same victims of Soviet regime as them. And certainly they were not considering themselves occupiers.

posted by Silver 2039 Personally I think this is the stupidest thing ever. Its just a statue....if your'e gonna kill each other and destroy stuff at least do it over something vaugely more important.

I agree.

For anyone who can read Russian, here is a very good article on that subject.

http://www.ej.ru/comments/entry/6170/

 

[Winner]

Perhaps Estonians should expell all the Russians who were caught rioting. They don't like the country they live in, okay, go back to Russia.

 

[amadeus]

I'm sure they'd be more than happy to relocate themselves to Putingrad.

 

[Mirc]

I voted. But that site needs to improve its grammar. First time I voted, I got a message in Estonian. I tried again, and I got the following message:

You are allready voted!

I'm voted??

 

[Winner]

I'm sure they'd be more than happy to relocate themselves to Putingrad.

They renamed Volgograd again?

 

[Winner]

I voted. But that site needs to improve its grammar. First time I voted, I got a message in Estonian. I tried again, and I got the following message:

You are allready voted!

I'm voted??

I looked at the page, saw a lot of text written in a language I don't understand and that is when I gave up

 

[Mirc]

To the OP:

Unfortunately, the Internet is highly international, and there are A LOT more Russians than Estonians out there...

The majority of voters on an internet poll will most likely prove NOTHING!

 

[Bill3000]

The only area of Russia that should be free from independence from Russia is the area of non-Ruthenian Rus. All the rest ain't core Russian territory!

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Perhaps Estonians should expell all the Russians who were caught rioting. They don't like the country they live in, okay, go back to Russia.

And perhaps all Estonians should get in a time machine and warp themselves back to 1943 Auschwitz.

 

[Winner]

And perhaps all Estonians should get in a time machine and warp themselves back to 1943 Auschwitz.

Perhaps you should spend a nice and long holiday in a Russian Gulag. Perhaps this experience would convice you, that communism indeed is a pure evil.

 

[Phlegmak]

I support the Estonians.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Perhaps you should spend a nice and long holiday in a Russian Gulag. Perhaps this experience would convice you, that communism indeed is a pure evil.

Perhaps you too should head back to Auschwitz, maybe that would help you realize that you owe your very existence to the Red Army rolling back the Nazis across Eastern Europe. Otherwise, your grandparents would have been murdered, you wouldn't exist, and portraits of Hitler would be all over Hitlerville (Prague) while its inhabitants speak German. You have much thanks to give to Russia.

 

[Mirc]

Perhaps you too should head back to Auschwitz, maybe that would help you realize that you owe your very existence to the Red Army rolling back the Nazis across Eastern Europe. Otherwise, your grandparents would have been murdered, you wouldn't exist, and portraits of Hitler would be all over Hitlerville (Prague) while its inhabitants speak German. You have much thanks to give to Russia.

You know, there was no city Hitlerville here, but there was a city called Stalin, and it "happened" to be the third biggest in the country. What does that tell you? Oh, and BTW, Stalin's portrait was obligatory in every school or public institution.

 

[ainwood]

Moderator Action: Pasi, Mirc & Winner - stick to the topic.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[amadeus]

Perhaps you too should head back to Auschwitz, maybe that would help you realize that you owe your very existence to the Red Army rolling back the Nazis across Eastern Europe. Otherwise, your grandparents would have been murdered, you wouldn't exist, and portraits of Hitler would be all over Hitlerville (Prague) while its inhabitants speak German. You have much thanks to give to Russia.

Actually, it would have gone something like this:

...you owe your very existence to the U.S. Army rolling back the Nazis across Europe. Otherwise, your grandparents would have been murdered by the communists and portraits of Stalin would be all over Stalinburg (what was left of Prague) while its inhabitants speak Russian. You have much thanks to give to the United States.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Actually, it would have gone something like this:

The Soviet Union won the war, by the time of Normandy, Western allied offensives were irrelevant. At Normandy 165,000 allied troops attacked, while 4 million Soviet troops eradicated the Nazi's Army Group Centre and sent them running back into Poland.

Don't lie to yourself: the Soviet Union was the deciding factor in the war. Without them, we all would be speaking German right now.

The Estonians would do themselves well to remember this. The Soviet Union saved them all. They would be but a passing mention in a Nazi history textbook without Stalin.

 

[The Tollan]

The Soviet Union won the war, by the time of Normandy, Western allied offensives were irrelevant. At Normandy 165,000 allied troops attacked, while 4 million Soviet troops eradicated the Nazi's Army Group Centre and sent them running back into Poland.

Don't lie to yourself: the Soviet Union was the deciding factor in the war. Without them, we all would be speaking German right now.

The Estonians would do themselves well to remember this. The Soviet Union saved them all. They would be but a passing mention in a Nazi history textbook without Stalin.

If the Soviet Union could allegedly defeat the Nazi forces by themselves then the U.S. and U.K. would not have fallen to Germany without Soviet aid. Although the Soviet Union had a larger population than the U.S. (the Russian part had less though) it was far less wealthy and often needed military equipment from the West.

Had the war gone on long enough the U.S. would have conducted a nuclear strike against the Third Reich.

 

[Urederra]

Perhaps you too should head back to Auschwitz, maybe that would help you realize that you owe your very existence to the Red Army rolling back the Nazis across Eastern Europe. Otherwise, your grandparents would have been murdered, you wouldn't exist, and portraits of Hitler would be all over Hitlerville (Prague) while its inhabitants speak German. You have much thanks to give to Russia.

A Nazi dictatorship or a Communist dictatorship, tough choice.

 

[Phlegmak]

The Estonians would do themselves well to remember this. The Soviet Union saved them all. They would be but a passing mention in a Nazi history textbook without Stalin.

Judging by your love of Stalin and the Soviet Union, the part I bolded looks really creepy.

Stalin's portrait was obligatory in every school or public institution.

That's repulsive.