Estonians need your help! (voting)

Until some russians took out the soviet flag and demanded the return of the Russian Army. We don't want to see this kind of protests in the centre of our capital

Yes, I forgot that some Russians were even helping the Estonians to associate the memorial with the Red Army. Not a wise thing to do, IMO...

Originally Posted by Lone Wolf
Both sides are quite hysterical IMHO...

I think so too. And I think that our government made a mistake when removeing the statue so fast. But that gives the russians no right to protest the way they did. I feel sad for those groups, who were against the removal and protested peacefully. Some of them tried to stop the looting.

Well, I kinda agree with you, Qimmik. The only part of your post I don't understand is

We would be very happy to give it for free.
But this is not in the best interest of Russia. Because now they can say that we are discriminateing russians. Despite the fact that every international study in the past has showed otherwise.

Why returning the statue to Russians is discriminating them?
 
Why returning the statue to Russians is discriminating them?
Not the returnig is discriminating, but according to the Russian government, the current situation is. That's why they don't want it. They want to show the world, how bad we treat the russian that live here. And use every opportunity to do so.

I have nothing againt russians in general. It's the actions of Russian government that anger me. And the actions of those, who organized the violent protests here.
 
FSB has created armed terrorist group in Estonia. I only got it from one friend, but if its true...:(
http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2007/04/29/8179.shtml

I didn't know that.. well, we see that on 9th may. But if they exist and try something, then they are foolish.. if they make first armed strike, then it only gives our police and army full right to ansver to that agression with full force.. and i don't believe Russia would help any terrorist attack with the support of army.. it would be devastating for them in large scale. :nuke: another country that officially havens and helps terrorists, no other country would allow such thing.
 
Kavkazcenter.com? The site of Chechenian separatists? It is natural for them to be a bit prejuised against Russia... :sarcasm:

Just read that article from that site:

Unknown Estonians put explanatory inscriptions on a monument to Russian invaders in the resort town of Haapsala last Saturday, October 14, 2006. On one side of the monument they wrore with distinct white paint "Eesti vaba" (Estonia is Free!) and on the other "Jude" (Jew) near a Zionist hexagram, the Russian National Interests news agency reported.

Estonia is one of a few countries in Eastern Europe where monuments to Russian invaders were not dismantled and demolished after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Estonia was occupied by Russia in 1940, liberated by Germany in 1941 and reoccupied by Russia in 1945. It remained part of the Russia's Evil Soviet Empire until its 1991 collapse.

The US and Britain never recognized the Russian occupation of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania although they did and still do it in regard to Muslim states in North Caucasus.

Russians portray themselves as "liberators" but Estonians regard them as occupiers under the Jewish command.

KC

Not a very nice article, eh? The writer clearly sympathises these Estonians...
 
Hey, that's very original. I hadn't heard that perspective before.

What's truly original there is the claim that Estonians see Russians as Jewish lackeys. ( :rolleyes: ) I hope this claim is not true... Anyway there is no use denying the site is certainly biased and the information there cannot be called objective.
 
This is site of Chechen terrorists! :mad:
How can you believe to people which are killing childs?
I dont belief but it should be interesting read something indoctrinated from Putin. I am also interested how many children were killed by Russian federation and how many by Chechnyan Republic. I agreee that site should be biased.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkazcenter
 
Voted for Estonia. It's ok in my book if it's done with proper ceremonials. The monument brings out a lot of different memories and feelings in different people at it's current place. Those who want to forget about the past, can't since it stands at the city center as a reminder. Those who want to honor the fallen can do it at the war memorial cemetery.

My opinion is that a reminder about complicated past never does anything good in such a public place.
 
For them, Nazi Germany was the lesser of two evils. For the Western Allies, Soviet Union was the lesser evil.

Quite shocking for some to believe, but sadly quite true.

Only as a tourist, I've visited both Estonia and Lithuania, and I was quite shocked by some of the things I saw there, particularly the holocaust museum in Vilnius, Lithuania.

One picture in particular burned into my memory was of the Nazi forces being received as liberators, almost identical to a scene from Paris with the Allied forces, with flowers being handed out etc. but for the swastika's.

Paint me naive, but it really had a profound impact on me.


In plain numbers, the Soviets deported/disappeared more people than the Nazis. This is not to say that the Nazi's did not carry out their own holocaust; I believe they put nearly the entire Estonian Jewish population in the gas chambers in the few years of occupation they were there. Nevertheless, it's less lives lost than the under the Soviets.


The British have offered a helping hand in Estonian independence on several occasions, and they should continue to be supported.

Russians living in the Baltic region will probably be a problem for some years/generations to come, but at the end of the day they have to accept what Soviet occupation meant for Estonia.
 
Not a very nice article, eh? The writer clearly sympathises these Estonians...

this article is bulls..t, it may be written by nationalists (who have really small groups here in Estonia).. or i'd not even exclude the possibility, that it's written by russian as a way to show estonians in a bad light..
whoever wrote this, he/she certainly ain't the voice of estonians in general
 
Quite shocking for some to believe, but sadly quite true.

Only as a tourist, I've visited both Estonia and Lithuania, and I was quite shocked by some of the things I saw there, particularly the holocaust museum in Vilnius, Lithuania.

One picture in particular burned into my memory was of the Nazi forces being received as liberators, almost identical to a scene from Paris with the Allied forces, with flowers being handed out etc. but for the swastika's.

Paint me naive, but it really had a profound impact on me.


In plain numbers, the Soviets deported/disappeared more people than the Nazis. This is not to say that the Nazi's did not carry out their own holocaust; I believe they put nearly the entire Estonian Jewish population in the gas chambers in the few years of occupation they were there. Nevertheless, it's less lives lost than the under the Soviets.


The British have offered a helping hand in Estonian independence on several occasions, and they should continue to be supported.

Russians living in the Baltic region will probably be a problem for some years/generations to come, but at the end of the day they have to accept what Soviet occupation meant for Estonia.

Yeah, soviets killed many estonians, deported us into Siberia.. but the worst difference between nazis and soviets was that soviets had low moral background, they ravaged, they stole, they trashed the land.. and most of all they banned our culture.. This still doesn't mean that i justify the acts of nazis. In the beginning of IIWW estonians saw the best chance to regain independency.. but when it was clear, we can't fight alone, people had to choose (as earlier said) between two of evils.
..and a fact for you.. nazis even didn't hunt so much jews in Estonia.. offcourse, many of them escaped, when it was clear that nazis gain the control of the land.. but still, nazis had much fighting to do, so they really had no time to look for jewish people. And as estonians were seen as a nordic people, they even allowed us many amenities, that was never in question under the control of soviet regime. We understand, that nazis carried out many crimes in Europe, but in here they behave quite well, and therefore it's no way weird, that we feel more discomfort against soviet oppression
 
this article is bulls..t, it may be written by nationalists (who have really small groups here in Estonia).. or i'd not even exclude the possibility, that it's written by russian as a way to show estonians in a bad light..
whoever wrote this, he/she certainly ain't the voice of estonians in general

Sorry if you do not realise. That article is from Kavkazcenter.com. I quoted it to show that chaps at Kavkazcenter (site of the Chechenian separatists) write such articles, and, therefore, is not a reliable source.
 
What's truly original there is the claim that Estonians see Russians as Jewish lackeys. ( :rolleyes: ) I hope this claim is not true... Anyway there is no use denying the site is certainly biased and the information there cannot be called objective.

Assuming that's not sarcasm :) that's a pretty good perspective you've just read.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I hadn't heard that perspective before. If that's true, then damn the Soviets sucked much worse than I had thought.
 
On the forum site that's linked to from the Estonian voting site, there's some guy that posted an article saying that the Red Army raped all the women in parts of Germany after they defeated the Germans in WW2. For war atrocities, I'm not sure if that's less, worse, or equal to the Germans massacring civilians in the Soviet Union.
 
On the forum site that's linked to from the Estonian voting site, there's some guy that posted an article saying that the Red Army raped all the women in parts of Germany after they defeated the Germans in WW2. For war atrocities, I'm not sure if that's less, worse, or equal to the Germans massacring civilians in the Soviet Union.

Both the nazis and soviets perpetrated horrible crimes against the inhabitants of Eastern Europe.

If I was in charge of Estonia I would destroy all German & Soviet statues/memorials in public ceremonies with fireworks, etc. .. of course making sure to respect the remains of the dead at any of the sites.

But maybe I'm just in a bad mood right now because I didn't get a promotion.. Still.. I feel that Estonia is showing far too much respect to Russian thugs ATM.
 
If I was in charge of Estonia I would destroy all German & Soviet statues/memorials in public ceremonies with fireworks, etc. .. of course making sure to respect the remains of the dead at any of the sites.
At least Germany tries to come to terms with its past - Russia sure doesn't.
 
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