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Eurocentrism

Discussion in 'World History' started by Krajzen, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

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    But then you'd give Russia a new gibraltar
     
  2. SeekTruthFromFacts

    SeekTruthFromFacts King

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    Perhaps because when Poland was introduced to DoC, it often ended up with cities in North Africa.

    Sent from my ME173X using Tapatalk
     
  3. storealex

    storealex In service of peace

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    There were some highly developed areas such as China, Japan, India, the Andes etc. where a lot of interesting things happened. But they happened in places that are impossible to pronounce. Strange people doing strange things and you constantly gets confused trying to remember who was who, Xhataclaca or Xcataluxaxa.

    And a lot of the world was just tribes fighting endless small wars with spears. Gee let's make a lot of movies about that...

    Europe had so many interesting periods of time. Romans, Vikings, Knights, Napoleon, Panzer tanks etc. You'll never go bored in European history. That's why its so popular.
     
  4. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

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    That's funny coming from a Dane.
     
  5. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    Off the top of my head, the Mfecane and the North American Beaver Wars. There's enough drama in just those two to fill at least several trilogies.

    Edit: another one, New Zealand Musket Wars
     
  6. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    The spear was the favorite weapon for virtually every people from the mid-17th century all the way back to hundreds of thousands of years ago with pointed sticks, so it played a major role in pretty much every conflict in that time. Including in Europe, where Romans, Vikings, Celts, Spanish, Landsknechts, combatants of the Thirty Years' War, and so on made heavy use of it.
     
  7. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Retired Moderator

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    I still subscribe to the school of thought that a rifle is just a handle for a bayonet. An infantry attack should always be conducted with the intention of using the pointy thing on the end.
     
  8. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    I don't know if they ever make contact anymore, but bayonet charges certainly scare the bejeezus out of people.
     
  9. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Retired Moderator

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    They do, perhaps not as often as in Napoleon's day, but it's more the mentality rather than the effect that's important. Holding off and shooting at the enemy doesn't put pressure on like constantly charging in and fighting up close, even if you don't actually end up using the bayonets. Most soldiers don't expect that to happen; they spend their lives training to shoot targets which are tens or hundreds of metres away and broadly static rather than within 100 metres and closing fast. It's particularly effective against a badly-set ambush - indeed, charging it where possible is really the closest thing to a 'good' reaction to an ambush, as other methods essentially boil down to trying to suppress a prepared fighting position and run away through a prepared killing zone.
     
  10. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    "So Dougal mac Neil of mac Donald travelled through Glen Donald and across Strath Neil to Ben Dougal where he did battle with Donald mac Dougal of ó Neil, and there Neil mac Dougal of mac Donald was slain, and Donald mac Dougal of ó Donald seized the crown from Donald mac Neil of mac Dougal." Utterly transparent.
     
  11. gay_Aleks

    gay_Aleks communism will win.

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    We're getting into CK2 territory here.
     
  12. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Scholarly literature is even worse, because they use period-appropriate spellings, so our friend Donald mac Dougal ó Neil might turn out to be Domnall mac Dubhghall uí Néill, Dómhnall mac Dùghall mac Niall or Dónal mac Dubgaill ó Néill, depending on where and when he lived. And that's assuming that they don't decide to throw in nicknames or place-names, or you might end up with Dómhnall Mór an Barraigh ("Big Donald of Barra", I think).

    And even that assumes we don't get any of the bastard-awkward names like Ó Flaithbertaigh or Druimeanach, which are just "O'Flaherty" and "Drummond" but sure as hell don't scan that way to the unfamiliar. Telling your Tenochtitlan from your Tlacopan might be tricky to get a hang of, but at least the names themselves are easy enough to pin down.
     
  13. Pangur Bán

    Pangur Bán Deconstructed

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    Yep, and many of the scholars doing it don't get it right too ... missing 'i's in genitives and horrible stuff like that! ;)
     
  14. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    That I'm butchering the language only goes to prove my point, that European history has no more straightforward names than anywhere else! ;)

    Honestly, if you want straightforward names, China is the one to go for. Simple, efficient naming system, and because their written language is so ancient, the convention is usually transliterate it as you would a modern name of the same spelling. Getting your head around the courtesy names and posthumous titles and such might be tricky- I frankly have no idea how that stuff works- but my impression that scholars skip most of that stuff anyway.
     
  15. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    秦始皇 can be transliterated as Qin Shi Huang, Qín Shǐ Huáng, Ch‘in Shih-huang, Chin Shi Huang, or Chin Shi Hwang, just to give the most common Mandarin transliterations (ie not including all the other Chinese languages), and of course like you said there are personal names and regnal names and posthumous names and clan names and ancestral names to deal with. And some names are very common (张 for instances, which of course is 張 in Traditional Script, not to be confused with 章, a homophone. Mandarin Chinese is maddeningly full of homophones)
     
  16. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Granted, there are something in the order of three billion systems for transliterating Chinese languages into Roman characters, but at least within any given system it's relatively straightforward and consistent.

    ...Right?
     
  17. schlaufuchs

    schlaufuchs La Femme Moderne

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    PINYIN OR NOTHING

    Anyway I've heard Japanese history can be tricky because people tended to change their name a lot or be given a new name by a lord after a battle to acknowledge their bravery or some feat or another.

    Toyotomi Hideyoshi was at various stages Hideyoshi-maru, Kino****a Tōkichirō, Hashiba Hideyoshi, Hashiba Chikuzen no Kami Hideyoshi, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, emperor Taicosama, and Kozaru.
     
  18. Wrymouth3

    Wrymouth3 Emperor

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    Who of course most likely looked like the below depicted:
     
  19. schlaufuchs

    schlaufuchs La Femme Moderne

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    A piece of paper with the corner torn off?
     
  20. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Pandora's Box is opened

    this conversation is very hilarious


    GUYS YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT DIFFICULT LANGUAGE
    Poland FTW

    Mediterran Sea - Morze Śródziemnomorskie
    Fifty - pięćdziesiąt
    Grain - źdźbło
    Happy - szczęśliwy
    Beetle - chrząszcz

    Note: there are absolutely no vowels resembling rz/ż, ź, ć, ś, dź, sz, cz, ł in Western Europe :lol:

    Also: u = ó , rz = ż as they are exactly the same vowels... But are written differently in various words and you have to memorize it. Don't worry, neither you nor Polish people can use their own language correctly :D

    Polish grammatical forms for the number 2 -
    dwa, dwie, dwoje, dwóch (or dwu), dwaj, dwiema, dwom (or dwóm), dwoma, dwojga, dwojgu, dwojgiem, dwójka, dwójki, dwójkę, dwójką, dwójce, dwójko

    English grammatical forms for the number 2 - two

    ...

    I find following languages ridiculously incomprehensible: Finnish, Thai, Vietnamese, whatever from Mesoamerica, obviously Chinese.

    On the other hand, Chinese language fascinates and annoys me. Its pronunciation is hard but writing is absolutely terrifying for Europeans, to the point I hardly imagine writing Chinese without spark of genius (or learning since very early age). Which is annoying because
    a) Chinese sounds beautiful for me :D It is IMHO much more melodious than all other languages.
    b) Chinese metaphors and names are also beautiful
    c) I think this language has very ergonomical grammar structure. If you can somehow remember those few words :D combining them into sentence is flexible and easy.

    I would say Chinese is exactly opposite to English. What I mean: basic English - at least for Polish people - is very easy to learn. Relatively simple pronunciation, lack of any obscure letters, many similar words etc. In the same time Chinese is hell :D But if you somehow manage to learn basic Chinese, you see ergonomical, awesome grammar and structure. While when you learn basic English you see the hell of tenses and grammar. Seriously, Englishmen, why?! Why so many tenses and this philosophical deliberations how should I write 'We had sex' depending on context... Really, would it be so hard to create just three tenses for PAST PRESENT FUTURE like in Polish? :p


    ...in Europe. Believe me, Asia has as much history and countless interesting things. Personally I think European history is EXTREMELY BORING :D

    Seriously - Napoleon, I don't care about Napoleon as it is no longer a mystery, it is popculture :p

    East Asian and Pre Columbian areas of history are truly fascinating for me. Europe - boring, Africa and Oceania - too much folklore not enough written history :p
     

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