European Union Consider Going the Way of Germany...

[Amenhotep7]

European Union May Ban Nazi Symbols
Debate Comes After Photo of Prince Harry's Swastika Armband
By CONSTANT BRAND, AP

BRUSSELS, Belgium (Jan. 17) - The European Union may consider banning Nazi symbols in its 25 member nations after Britain's Prince Harry wore a swastika armband to a costume party, the bloc's top justice official said Monday.

Franco Frattini, the EU's justice and home affairs commissioner, said he was open to discussing the issue at a Jan. 27 meeting of EU justice ministers.

"It may be worth looking into the possibility of a total ban, a Europe-wide ban," his spokesman, Friso Roscam Abbing, told reporters Monday. "Commissioner Frattini shares the general feeling of opprobrium on the use of the swastika and other Nazi symbols."

The call came after several German conservatives, socialists and liberal democrats in the European Parliament urged a European ban following a scandal last week over photos published worldwide of Harry, third in line to the British throne, wearing the Nazi outfit.

German Socialist Helmut Kuhne called Harry a "royal idiot" for not knowing the consequences and World War II history linked to the Nazi swastika.

Germany already bans such symbols.

But British Liberal Democrat Chris Davies questioned the need to ban the swastika.

"I understand how the burden of history weighs upon my German colleagues' view," he said. "However, banning symbols cannot ban evil and risks playing into the hands of those who would seek to subvert the very liberties we most champion."

Roscam Abbing said Frattini would urge EU ministers to use the swastika incident to push for agreement on EU-wide rules to combat racism, fascism and anti-Semitism.

A proposal was introduced two years ago but discussions have failed to make headway. Roscam Abbing said officials would take care not to violate freedom of expression in devising such a ban.

Frattini's decision to look into an EU-wide ban could further embarrass Queen Elizabeth II, who is to lead British commemorations of the Holocaust in London later this month.

A copy of the Jan. 13 front page of The Sun newspaper in Britain shows Prince Harry wearing a swastika and an army shirt with Nazi regalia at a friend's party.

EU ban on Nazi symbols: good, bad, or redundant?

 

[Amenhotep7]

'Ah gots one voter and no posters.

 

[Japher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The swastika is a cross with its arms bent 90° to either right or left. It is usually oriented horizontally or at a 45° angle. Its Indian form typically features a dot in each quadrant (as shown in the figure to the right).

The word swastika is derived from the Sanskrit स्वस्तिक, svastika, meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote good luck. It is composed of su- (cognate with Greek ευ-), meaning "good, well" and asti a verbal abstract to the root as "to be"; svasti thus means "well-being". The suffix -ka forms a diminutive, and svastika might thus be translated literally as "little thing associated with well-being", corresponding roughly to "lucky charm".

The swastika appears in art and design throughout human history, symbolising many different things — luck, Surya (the sun), Brahma, or the Hindu concept of samsara. In fact, the swastika is used primarily as a religious symbol by Hindus – it was first mentioned in the Vedas, the holy texts of Hinduism – but transferred to other Indic religions like Buddhism and Jainism. It also occurs in other Asian, European, and Native American cultures – sometimes as a simple geometrical motif, sometimes as a religious symbol. The almost universally positive meanings of the swastika were subverted in the early twentieth century when it was adopted as the emblem of the National Socialist German Workers Party. Since World War II, most Westerners see it as solely a fascist symbol, leading to incorrect assumptions about its pre-Nazi use and its use in other cultures.

To keep with freedom of religion; if they ban the swastika they should ban all other religious symbols.

 

[AmericanGeneral]

redundant, freedom of expression is freedm of expression, whether its bad or good,

why suppress choice?

 

[Mise]

We should not ban the symbols, because then we don't know who to keep an eye on. Nazis will be forced to go underground where they can't be controlled. Imagine if the BNP turned into an underground terrorist militia? (and I use "imagine" and "turned into" loosely...)

 

[Yom]

It's redundant, and it shouldn't be banned.

 

[AmericanGeneral]

To keep with freedom of religion; if they ban the swastika they should ban all other religious symbols.

freedoom of religion, banning religious symbols, is it me or is that comical? thats just equal SUPPRESSION of religion, like i always say, equality isnt the same as freedom.

either way a ban is only suppression.

 

[Billy Rubin]

The German federal office for the protection of the constitution spends lots of efforts and money to identify neonazis - most would be dumb enough to show their sick ideology deliberately by wearing swastikas and they even come up with workarounds - so what's the point in banning the symbol? It just keeps dangerous morons from showing what they are.

I understand that survivors of nazi-terror shouldn't be confronted with the symbols associated with their torture in Germany, but they die away and as they do, I'd say to go the opposite way and liberalise the laws in Germany. If anyone wants to show the world that he's a diehard a**hole, let him - keeping him from doing so wont change his mind and at least you know what you're confronted with without a doubt.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

Perhaps a ban on royalty children to wear bad replicas of Africa-Korps uniforms woud be more useful

 

[Gladi]

Bright day
NO. We need to remember.

 

[Reno]

It's unnecesary, it will not do anything good. We let the extreme left keep there own symbols visible, why should it be any different from the extreme right. no offence meant to anyone, and i don't care do they ban them one way or the other. Since, i am not a nazi.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

You start limitiing people's freedom of expression, you will have more resentment towards the government, which is worse than a few people wearing a symbol of hate.

 

[Winner]

Nazi symbols are already banned in my country and we don't have any problems with that. Nazism was evil that destroyed our country and killed 300,000 of our people and in fact caused another 40 years of communist rule after "liberation" by the Red Army.

It also killed millions of Europeans so I don't see any reason to tolerate it anymore.

But it is true we need to learn children what it was and what it did rather than banning it without giving a reason.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

A clarification:
Swastikas are not banned in Germany. It's the glorification of Nazi symbols that's banned. You find them in history books, historical documentary movies, 'quality Hollywood movies' or technical museums without any problems. If you want to paint a Swastika on your aircraft modell, feel free to do so.
Swastikas (and other Nazi symbols, like the SS runes) are only banned where it absolutely makes sense:
1) Toys. They are not supplied with modells, and are not supposed to be in video games or movies for minors. Still, if they happen to be in (like in several StarTrek: Voyager episodes), this isn't illegal unless someone feels offended and goes to court.
2) Political Parties. No, this doesn't make it more difficult to recognize Neonazis; their symbols are easy enough to see (LoNSDAle t-shirts, the number '88' etc).

That jerk's costume obviously falls in category 1), not 2).
It should also be noted that the ban for movies isn't handled as strictly anymore; scenes with swatikas are hardly censored today (unless the movie glorifies the Nazis, of course). A good example for that is that those Voyager episodes were aired uncut, while the classical Original Series episode with Kirk in SS uniform is still classified.

Yes, I'm all for it to ban using Swastikas as a joke.

 

[Winner]

A clarification:
Swastikas are not banned in Germany. It's the glorification of Nazi symbols that's banned. You find them in history books, historical documentary movies, or technical museums without any problems. If you want to paint a Swastika on your aircraft modell, feel free to do so.
Swastikas (and other Nazi symbols, like the SS runes) are only banned where it absolutely makes sense:
1) Toys. They are not supplied with modells, and are not supposed to be in video games or movies for minors. Still, if they happen to be in (like in several StarTrek: Voyager episodes), this isn't illegal unless someone feels offended and goes to court.
2) Political Parties. No, this doesn't make it more difficult to recognize Neonazis; their symbols are easy enough to see (LoNSDAle t-shirts, the number '88' etc).

It is the same here.

 

[Juka The Dumb]

no.
just like a muslim woman should be able to wrap her head in a towel if they want to,a 7 foot skinhead named daisy should be able to show off his crap..oh,and harry too

 

[luiz]

Ridiculous. Freedom of expression is freedom of expression, period.

 

[Winner]

Wearing an swastika is like pissing on the grave of 40 millions people killed by those bastards who did wear it at first.

 

[Seanirl]

Pfft. Ever realise the complete irony of the whole thing?

By suppressing symbols and **** certain ideologies, they're going like Goebbels and the rest of them.

The irony of it all...

I mean, come on! wake the **** up! next they'll be banning all opposition parties...

historical documentary movies

Yet they're banned in games? Strange...

Moderator Action: Warned for language
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Juka The Dumb]

Ridiculous. Freedom of expression is freedom of expression, period.

yeah,repressing freedom of speech would be like turning the eu into cfc.