Evidence for creationism

[MobBoss]

Ever noticed how quickly conservatives become fans of political correctness when they feel that they're being put out?

Seriously?

This is so utterly petty I cant even believe you said it.

I'll not call religion mythology if you no longer call Socialism wrong. You are not being insulted, and you have no right to not be offended.

Typical reaction around here when a fundamentalist objects to his beliefs being insulted.

Ah well, so much for asking certain people to be considerate of others and their beliefs. Thank you all for reminding why I vote the way I do.

 

[Tani Coyote]

No, free will is letting people making their own informed decision, not trying to trip them down and punish them for it if they do. Get your logic straight.

It is straight - the ability to choose is pointless without choices.

Letting Satan run amock gives those choices - one can go to Satan, to him, or neither.

If he's created the world, he created the need to prey on each other, so you, again, fail at logic.

Even so, he'd interfere with free choices if he interfered in the world, since if everything was peachy-keen and his presence well-known, we'd all be faithful. God wants us to be good, but he wants us to be able to choose not to at the same time. A bit of a moral dilemma maybe, but there you go.

I also have a suggestion: perhaps you could be a little less insulting?

 

[Arakhor]

Ah well, so much for asking certain people to be considerate of others and their beliefs. Thank you all for reminding why I vote the way I do.

Your tolerance of other people's beliefs and practices is legendary, Mobboss.

 

[MobBoss]

Your tolerance of other people's beliefs and practices is legendary, Mobboss.

Its actually far better than most, and more than a bit better than you would describe it.

Lets put it this way.....if we sat down and had a beer to discuss things ala Obama-style....I wouldnt be the first one to leave the table. Guranteed.

 

[El_Machinae]

Moderator Action: Mobboss, RRW, TraitorFish. Arakhor. Drop it
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[ParadigmShifter]

So let me get this straight: you claim all atheists are untrustworthy, homosexuality is a sin which should be punishable by exclusion from the US army, innocent people executed by wrong application of the death penalty is a price worth paying for seeing justice being done, all the while acting in a generally intimidating and bullying fashion, yet when someone claims sections of a book written thousands of years ago "myths" you get all defensive.

Excuse me while I and go /meh.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

As a blind man I really don't see the big deal.

 

[bathsheba666]

Anyone found any evidence yet?

 

[Tani Coyote]

Anyone found any evidence yet?

I don't think we'll find any short of creationism being changed to mean God created the first cells or whatever and they evolved into the current situation over time.

It gets even better if we use Young Earth creationism. Since of course, our flawed human perspective means carbon-dating is grossly misinterpreted to mean the world is billions of years old.

 

[Traitorfish]

Moderator Action: PDMA - pm the mod in question if you want to discuss the issue.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Bill3000]

Bill, Do you justify being rude all the time or just in this case?

Seriously, if someone that believes in a religion finds it offensive to refer to it as mythical/imaginary/ etc. etc. why do you then try to justify or defend doing so?

I'm not being rude, I'm just saying that myth does not mean imaginary or false in the non-colloquial sense - the sense in which one would refer to a mythology - and calling a myth false (or equating the two) misses the point of a myth. When one is actually talking about myths, such as in academia or theology, one doesn't pass judgment on the truth or falsity of it. I'm defending you against El Mac here. I'm not referring to calling a person's religion imaginary to his face, I'm referring to talking about, say, talking about the mythology of a religion - such as the traditional narratives of Christianity.

 

[Smidlee]

Have a look at the video posted before, it perfectly illustrate how simple rules ends up making complex mechanisms.
Saying it's not possible shows only the narrow limit of your understanding, nothing more.

computer programs has a bad side effect ( bad if you want to use as examples of evolution) , You can measure the information built in a program from the actually information being produced by the engine. Often the actual information being produced is very small. Also these programs are examples of artificial selection instead of natural selection. By the lab studies so far, fruit flies are resisting evolution but let's not look at those lab studies but some You-tube video instead. Maybe it's your faith getting in the way.

 

[Traitorfish]

Also these programs are examples of artificial selection instead of natural selection.

And what, exactly, is the mechanical distinction between the two?

By the lab studies so far, fruit flies are resisting evolution...

[Citation sorely needed]

 

[Xanikk999]

And what, exactly, is the mechanical distinction between the two?

Wouldn't artificial selection be the result of man made interactions rather than natural? One could argue that that too is natural selection however as humans we have a higher intelligence and can systematically and mechanically work such things to our benefit in a most unnatural way such as a genocide. That would be artificial selection because if left to animals they would not set on a campaign to annihilate a species though they may inadvertently do so.

 

[Traitorfish]

Wouldn't artificial selection be the result of man made interactions rather than natural?

I asked for the mechanical difference, not for an explanation of terminology. The two are obviously the result of different circumstances, but that does not suggest that a mechanic shown to exist in a controlled environment will not be present and active in an uncontrolled one.

 

[Cu Chulainn]

In every situation where there is variation and selection evolution happens. There is absolutely no reason to suppose that life is any different.

 

[Berzerker]

the mythology I was referring to (upthread) was regarding the picture of the Devil's current status in Hell.

I believe the NT shows Satan as ruling our world... When he tempted Jesus, he offered him kingship of any (and all?) land, and Jesus did not challenge Satan's "authority" to make that offer. There's even a branch of Christianity in Armenia that offers prayer to Satan because they consider him to be in charge down here, even now.

 

[Traitorfish]

I believe the NT shows Satan as ruling our world... When he tempted Jesus, he offered him kingship of any (and all?) land, and Jesus did not challenge Satan's "authority" to make that offer. There's even a branch of Christianity in Armenia that offers prayer to Satan because they consider him to be in charge down here, even now.

That's the dualistic or Gnostic-influence interpretation, but it's not universal. Others suggest that Satan is not an independent power, but an angel tasked with testing the faith of the pious; "Devil", for example, is derived from the Greek "diávolos", originally "slanderer" or "accuser", taken from the interpretation which held him to be tasked as playing (perhaps not coincidentally) Devil's advocate in the judging of souls. Others claim him as a trapped in hell, Muslims as a rebellious Djinn, and some deny the existence of a single supreme evil- "the" Devil- altogether.
Honestly, it's not something you'll find a single opinion on this, given that Satan/the Devil/the Adversary/whoever is a rather minor figure in the Bible itself. Our conception of the entity owes more to anti-paganism and Medieval folklore than to any Biblical source.

 

[Methos]

I believe the NT shows Satan as ruling our world...

That's the dualistic or Gnostic-influence interpretation, but it's not universal.

As Traitorfish states, its a Gnostic view. Tell a Christian that and you'll probably be referred to as a blasphemer. In Genesis G_d gives authority to humans, rather then taking it upon Himself, so one could even read the OT as this world never being ruled over by G_d. There's other passages as well, but no need to go into them here unless requested.

One could even question whether in the passage Berzerker mentions whether Jesus is really talking to a being called Satan, or whether its an analogy referring to Satan as selfishness, more something I've questioned personally.

 

[Berzerker]

As Traitorfish states, its a Gnostic view. Tell a Christian that and you'll probably be referred to as a blasphemer. In Genesis G_d gives authority to humans, rather then taking it upon Himself, so one could even read the OT as this world never being ruled over by G_d. There's other passages as well, but no need to go into them here unless requested.

One could even question whether in the passage Berzerker mentions whether Jesus is really talking to a being called Satan, or whether its an analogy referring to Satan as selfishness, more something I've questioned personally.

It aint me telling Christians anything, this is their belief, not mine... And I dont know if its gnostic or not, I do know a branch of Armenian Christianity today prays to Satan because they believe he rules on Earth until Jesus' return - and the actual text in the NT does support their view, "blasphemy" or not. Satan offers Jesus kingship on Earth and Jesus declines the offer because he serves kingship in Heaven. If Satan's offer was invalid, Jesus would have said something to that effect. He didn't... And I do believe it is a nearly universal belief among Christians that Satan is here on Earth and Jesus is not... But I do like your interpretation even if it is speculative.