Foreign Policy: UniversCiv

[RegentMan]

I see above our city will be two tiles away. In Civ IV, cities must be at least three tiles away from each other (sole exception is when they're on different islands). Are our locations actually three spots away?

 

[2metraninja]

Heh, no, you can settle normally cities on one and the same landmass separated with 2 tiles only in Civ4.

 

[SilentConfusion]

We are miscommunicating here.

CityXXCity is allowed we all agree.

2metra looks at that and says 2 tiles between them. RegentMan and I look at that and say cities have to be 3 tiles away from each other.

The phrase in question is:

Our new location will still be 2 tiles away from your Elephant city location

I would suggest either "will still be 3 tiles away from your Elephant city location." or "will still have 2 tiles between our city and your Elephant city location."

They will probably understand because I assume they know the rules and they would know that we also know what we're talking about, but if we can add clarity it doesn't hurt.

Here's a suggestion:

Just quick reminder that we are still waiting for your acceptance about the duration of our NAP.

We would also like to tell you that we might be forced to change our Marble city location due to continuing war with Spaniards and their cultural borders expanding recently. Our new location will not interfere with your Elephant city location, so you can settle it without problems whenever you like.

Spanish Apolyton just sent us a strange and alarming message that we thought you should know about. After marching their troops toward our cities, they saw our units and defenses and realized they could not capture our cities. The next turn they retreated their troops and sent us a short message asking if we wanted peace. They said the price for peace was to join them in an alliance against UCiv. We will keep fighting them at every opportunity, but their stack is headed north and may intend to do you harm. Their strange behavior and willingness to change their mind so easily makes them a dangerous and unpredictable neighbor. We suggest getting our NAP and settling plan hammered out so we can focus on solving our mutual problem.

Team CFC

 

[2metraninja]

They will know what "2tiles away so you can settle normally" means.

 

[SilentConfusion]

They will know what "2tiles away so you can settle normally" means.

I completely agree that they will know/figure out what it means. After my suggestions, the draft actually avoids the issue altogether and any possible uncertainty about whether we know the rules or not by using different phrasing.

Are you saying you prefer the "2 tiles away phrase" to how it is in that suggested draft? I don't really care too much about that, as I consider that small. I was just trying to point out that you both were saying the same thing.

 

[2metraninja]

Yeah, it is the same.

It is that they were just worried about our cities being too close to each- other.

I was wondering if it is not better to just send them the reminder and the explanation about our new city and leave the Spanish case as reserve?

 

[Maga_R]

I think we just need the to send them something quickly. I would request that they confirm, not accept our NAP. The only other thing is that we will let them settle elephant city and settle our marble city at reasonable - not very inconvenient for them - location. Rest can wait.

 

[2metraninja]

Yes, agree we need our NAP confirmed.

 

[Caledorn]

And we have our NAP confirmed until T200!

Check the diplomacy log for UCiv to see the message. There is another city location they're asking us about, and I think we should respond with that, and also the Spanish plans of course.

 

[2metraninja]

Sigh (really deep exhale). I knew they will want to have the sugar. With this new city they will have also most of the river valley and the Spanish corn when we capture KwaDukuza... Anyway, we needed that NAP. But we MUST tell them that we will move our city too (we need it on the marble or even more west now).

 

[2metraninja]

I was quick to tell about spanish corn. Those Uciv guys got us good by taking ALL the land which was just few turns ago no-settling-border-area, so we must at least ask them to settle

MM====
MeMU==U
M=M===
=M====
=====C

to not claim "our" Spanish corn.

Also maybe ask them for concessions west of the mountains? They got ALL the goodies east of the mountain..

 

[YossarianLives]

I just want to point out that they accepted the NAP without conditions. They then go on to state that they would like to settle a second city in the area. In no way have we already agreed to this. In my opinion, this new request is completely independent of their confirmation of our NAP through T200.

Here's their message again for easy reference:

Hi,

Thanks for your NAP offer, we agree for the NAP until turn 200
I think your city would be OK.
We would just like to found a second city like this :

MM====
MeMU==U
M=M===
=M====
=====C

or like that:

MM====
MeMU===U
M=M===
=M====
=====C

Bye, Yuufo

And here's a picture of the area from T107 (they want to plant cities on U1 and on the tile where our chariot is in that picture.)

Spoiler :

 

[classical_hero]

We want CFC3 don't we?

 

[talonschild]

Yes, we do. Is saying, flat out, we get the Sugar as they got the Ivory out of the question?

Mind you, if we say that we should be standing by with a settler. Or kwaDukuza.

 

[YossarianLives]

We've responded with an acknowledgement email.

Just letting you know that we've received the message and that it's posted in the team forums - you should get a response within a day to this.

Caledorn, Foreign Minister of Team CFC

 

[cav scout]

We already gave them the elephants, our city should get the marble (clearly in our area) and the sugar (which is in the neutral area like the elephants). I think we should tell them that we passed on a great location for our city to accomodate their elephant one. Their plans for a 2nd city now interfere with our already adjusted city... how often do they expect us to move? We gave them the elephant location in the neutral zone, they don't need to found any more cities there. They get the elephants, we get the sugar.

 

[Caledorn]

For now, I think we should make a simple response that we need to discuss the sugar/marble settlement. Should we tell them about the Spanish plans in this response?

 

[Caledorn]

Btw.. Did we ever get any IM contact from Uciv? I think it would be a good idea to suggest that, if we don't have that option, so I could talk to their diplomatic representative live.

 

[2metraninja]

They get the elephants, we get the sugar.

I like how you put it, Cav.

Btw.. Did we ever get any IM contact from Uciv? I think it would be a good idea to suggest that, if we don't have that option, so I could talk to their diplomatic representative live.

That is a great idea too.

 

[dratboy]

Just skimmed a lot of this thread. Seems pretty clear that UCiv relishes these stick-poking types of negotiations. We've gone from downright friendly to almsot at war and all the way back again in a very short amount of turns and it would seem to be by design (their design). With a long-term NAP now in place and us at war with SpAp, they wasted very little time in leveraging the situation. They agree to long term peace and ask us for concessions in the same breath. Whether we choose to treat these as separate issues or not, it's no coincidence that they were jammed together like that.

Do we want that sugar? Do we NEED that sugar? Then it's time to act like the world power that we are. Did we not just send the Spaniards running for the hills? We make it very clear that the sugar lands are off the table and rightly ours, but that we are also, as proven in the past, a fair and generous empire. Surely there is something we can offer that will further tip the risk/reward balance in their eyes? We have an amazing UU, for instance...

The actual message wouln't be so blunt as that of course, not after running through the diplo-filter a few times....