Foreign Policy: UniversCiv

[2metraninja]

We can use this - that we have agreement not to extend NAPs with them and that all allies are pissed at Uciv to blackmail them and extort some extraordinary things from them in exchange for lobbying to our supposedly close and devoted allies CP and Poly for sparring Uciv.

 

[2metraninja]

In the same time we must not give away clues to ot4e and MZ that we are interested in NAP with Uciv more than normal. And I think we really need this NAP and friendly relations with Uciv.

Killing off and partitioning Uciv would have been nice, but I just dont see how this will happen in practice. We need period of regrowth. And we need our allies armies, as Uciv might well out-tech us. CP have no border with Uciv at all. MZ will have real border with Uciv only if he conquer WPC. But we want to conquer WPC ourselves. Maybe we promise to leave 2-3 WPC cities to MZ to have him on our good side and not end in the RB's position of being obviously the bigger candidate for winner with most land and not enough time to utilize this land to turn it in to undone-able advantage. And with this plan (if it works) we will still be the biggest and we will have 2 secure borders and somewhat friendly nation - Poly and Uciv, which can balance things if CP and CivFR decide to jump at us. We can even ask from Uciv to keep somewhat garrison which must be gifted to us in case we are attacked by someone?

 

[2metraninja]

Sommers is right that Uciv have quite a sins to ask for forgiveness from us. We can either use this as source of anger and lust for their blood, or we can sell them indulgence at great price.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I favor selling them indulgences, but we have to take WPC land before Poly, all the while not getting score lead and developing our lands and growing our military power. There is alot of complicated things to do and even more complicated diplomacy.

 

[2metraninja]

So, I asked our allies CP and Poly if they are committed to attacking Uciv, because we had an agreement to not extend NAP with them without consulting the others. CP only asked if now is the right time to attack Uciv, to which I answer that now we have armies, to which they said nothing. Poly said they have still 30+ turns of NAP and they dont know if they will want war at that time.

So I assume this as a "No" and we can sign our NAP with Uciv.

We must ask/tell Uciv few things:

1. We must emphasize that we have to speak to our allies because we were planning to punish Uciv for their deeds. Hopefully this will soften Uciv's knees and they will be ready to generously buy off their lives. Plus make them genuinely grateful to us for giving them a chance to live.

2. We must ask for money gift/loan from Uciv. What sum would be appropriate to ask for if it is gift/ransom and what sum/terms if it is a loan?

3. We must ask what happened with the RB GSpy. if they still have it, it will be great if we can have it - either as ransom/copensation, or to pay something for it.

4. We must ask Uciv to build some 10-20 rifles army and gift them to us as compensation for the losses we had fighting the RB rifles.

5. We must find a way to make sure Uciv wont attack WPC, as we already see them as rightful bounty for us (and some of it to MZ maybe to have him on our good side and maybe irritate ot4e to degree where he starts to plot in open against us and MZ with CivFR).

6. Something else?

 

[2metraninja]

Proposed message to be sent to Uciv:

Greetings, Team Uciv,

We have to tell you we are glad you realized now how wrong you did so far. Coming to ask for our friendship takes some manhood. You have quite a sins towards us to pay for. First you tried to settle the Zulu land we fought hard for. Then we ask you to negotiate about this and you said you will help us against RB, but the next thing we see is you are giving huge amount of money to our enemies. Then we ask you if you could give us loan too, you say you will discuss this and never answer to us.

Now you come and ask us to be friends again. In which Gods you will swear this time? CP and Poly are mad at you and want your blood. We are not happy with you either for making us lose like 2000 hammers in soldiers more because of RB having rifles. Same with Poly. CP lost more than 4000. We have agreement to not extend NAPs with you right now. We have to convince our war-allies it is not worth to attack you with our left-over 400 000 soldier points of power, but making you friendly nation. I am not 100% sure it will be possible at all, but I am sure that you will have to make some serious efforts and some real steps to make us think of you as friendly nation again as only promises wont work this time I think.

It sounds a bit threatening and harsh, but I think it is necessary to make them soft so they give in to our demands. We were discussing this with Bistrita and we think that 3000 gold given to us now and returned in 20-30 turns will do us great job. We might ask for other things too. Depend how Uciv react.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Worst they can say is no. If they are not going to give us a huge loan then they are useless to us anyway.

 

[2metraninja]

Right. I dont like at all being rejected, but we have to take this risk, as the reward is great.

 

[Calis]

But you should not start with some demand and when they accept it put some further demand on top.

 

[2metraninja]

Of course. But this first message does not make demands.

I think if we need to make demands in the first message. This is two-sided knife. If we put our demands, they will have the chance to look at them and not be scared from the unknown demands. But on the other hand, if we do put demands, they might decide: "Fuсk them, they start with the demands and ask too much" and not even bother answering us, where now they will have the chance to choose if they are willing to pay at all and then on next stage we put our demands and bargain them.

 

[YossarianLives]

My only suggestion is to remove the first complaint about them almost settling Zulu land. That happened long ago and they backed off as soon as we told them to, so bringing it up again seems somewhat petty. All the other issues are more legitimate complaints. Let's just start with them saying they would help us with RB, then they gave cash to RB instead.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I disagree. Mentioning their attempt to steal the Zulu land is not petty, it reminds them that they have a bad track record with us all game. It points out that they have tried to outsmart us and steal from us in the past so we have cause to not trust their words alone. It also reminds them that we are not pushovers, and we will stand up to those who have wronged us or are getting ready to wrong us.

 

[YossarianLives]

That's fine with me, then. I'll send 2metra's message as-is in the next few hours barring any objections.

 

[2metraninja]

My only suggestion is to remove the first complaint about them almost settling Zulu land. That happened long ago and they backed off as soon as we told them to

This is not correct. The first time when they tried to settle the deer spot, we had to change workers plans, move military units to cover workers, change short plans, whip settler, etc, etc and we had to close borders to extract forcefully their settler. The second time when they sent a settler AFTER we had already told them we dont want them settle the land we fought for and that we need to have a deal about RB to let them settle any of our land, we had to send military units again to rattle sabers to their unprotected settler and to pillage the matured cottages around to make them think the pillaged land is not worth risking conflict with us. Plus I think the main reason why they sent their settler back the second time was they have chosen to side with RB and did not wanted to have a city hostage on our side of the shallow sea.

So yeah, they acted if not arrogant, at least nasty and opportunistic, showing disrespect and unreliable to us.

 

[2metraninja]

Thinking a bit more, I would like to add/change few things to the message:

Greetings, Team Uciv,

We have to tell you we are pleasantly surprised you realized now how wrong you did so far. Coming to ask for our friendship takes some manhood.

You have quite a sins towards us to pay for. First you tried to settle the Zulu land we fought hard for. Then we ask you to negotiate about this and you said you will help us against RB, but the next thing we see is you are giving huge amount of money to our enemies. Then we ask you if you could give us loan too, you say you will discuss this and never answer to us.

Now you come and ask us to be friends again. In which Gods you will swear this time to make us believe your intentions now? CP and Poly are mad at you and want your blood. We are not happy with you either for making us lose like 2000+ additional hammers in soldiers more because of RB having rifles. Same with Poly. CP lost more than 4000. We have agreement to not extend NAPs with you right now. We have to convince our war-allies it is not worth to attack you with our cumulative left-over 400 000 soldier points of power as we intended initially, but making you friendly nation. I am not absolutely sure it will be possible at all, but we can talk to them. You are right that it is only our border that is long enough for easy war, so it will mostly depends on our opinion.

In one thing I am sure though. That you will have to make some serious efforts and some real steps to make us think of you as friendly nation again as only promises wont work this time I think. We have some things on our mind about possible solution. If you are feeling in similar way, let us know and we can speak about specifics.

Team CFC

Basically the same thing, but tells them in more concrete way that we want some things from them and the alternative is being dogpiled by the 3 of us.

 

[2metraninja]

This is what Uciv had sent us last. Now I see they ask for our propositions:

Hi,

Just to say that it was really interesting to talk with you. Hope that our differences of choices in the recent past won't ruin thousands years of cooperation and friendship !

We wait for your answer or propositions !

Zioun for Universciv

So now I think we must include specifics in our message.

 

[2metraninja]

Third proposal in a row:

Greetings, Team Uciv,

We were always able to find common language until some time lately where things gone really wrong between us. We have to tell you we are pleasantly surprised you realized now how wrong you did recently and come to seek a way to live in peace again. Coming to ask for our friendship takes some manhood.

You have quite a sins towards us to pay for. First you tried to settle the Zulu land we fought hard for. Then we ask you to negotiate about this and you said you will help us against RB, but the next thing we see is you are giving huge amount of money to our enemies. Then we ask you if you could give us loan too, you say you will discuss this and never answer to us.

Now you come and ask us to be friends again. Telling you that we are OK with you while deep inside we feel unjustified by you and plotting to destroy you is not in our style. In which Gods you will swear this time to make us believe your friendly intentions now and make us like you? CP and Poly are mad at you and want your blood. We are not happy with you either for making us lose like 2000+ additional hammers in soldiers more because of RB having rifles. Same with Poly. CP lost more than 4000. We have agreement to not extend NAPs with you right now. We have to convince our war-allies it is not worth to attack you with our cumulative left-over 400 000 soldier points of power as we intended initially, but making you friendly nation. I am not absolutely sure it will be possible at all, but we can talk to them. You are right that it is only our border that is long enough for easy war, so it will mostly depends on our opinion.

In one thing I am sure though. That you will have to make some serious efforts and some real steps to make us think of you as friendly nation again as only promises wont work this time. We had discussion and came to possible solution. Because we had to harm ourselves with drafting/whipping like 50 population to react to the new RB weapons which they were able to get due to your financial aid, we think we deserve financial compensation from you. We think that either you give us the Great Spy that RB had payed to you for your help, or you give us the same amount of money you gave to RB as loan on preferential terms - the money are to be returned 25 turns after they are given without interest. Having this good you do to us, we will see your good will to be friends again, we will consider your recent transgressions null and sign a NAP to t240 with you to make it formal.


Team CFC

I want to put somehow the clause that they wont attack WPC, so we can take them But dont know how. Ideas?

 

[2metraninja]

As last resort we just tell Uciv we want them to promise us they will not attack WPC

 

[2metraninja]

Some grammar guys?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Here is my edit of 2metra's message. I added the part about not attacking WPC and also took out the part about "manhood" which I thought some might find too insulting and cloud their judgment:

Greetings, Team Uciv,

In the past we were able to find common ground, but lately things have gone really wrong between us. We are pleasantly surprised you finally realized now how wrong you were and come to seek a way to live in peace again. Coming to ask for our friendship is a really good sign.

You have quite a lot of sins towards us to pay for. First you tried to settle the Zulu land we fought hard for. Then we ask you to negotiate about this and you said you will help us against RB, but the next thing we see is you are giving a huge amount of money to our enemies. Then we ask you if you could give us a loan too, and you say you will discuss this but then you never answered us.

Now you come and ask us to be friends again. We decided against telling you that all is forgiven while we still feel so mistreated by you. You have decieved us in the past despite pretending to be our friends. To which Gods will you swear this time to make us believe your friendly intentions? We need some concrete actions from you to demonstrate your friendly intentions.

CP and Poly are mad at you and want your blood. We are not happy with you either for making us lose like 2000+ additional hammers in soldiers more because of RB having rifles. You have cost our allies the same, or more. CP lost more than 4000 because of your schemes. We have agreement to not extend NAPs with you right now.

To be friends with you, we have to convince our allies it is not worth attacking you with our combined armies as we intended initially, but instead to make you friend. I am not absolutely sure it will be possible at all, but we can talk to them. You are right that it is only our border that is long enough for easy war, so it will mostly depends on our opinion, and hopefully our allies will take our advice.

One thing is certain. You will have to make some serious efforts and offer some real benefits to make us think of you as friendly nation. Promises wont work this time. We had discussion and came to possible solution. Because we had to harm ourselves with drafting/whipping like 50 population to react to the new RB weapons which they were able to get due to your financial aid, we think we deserve financial compensation from you. We also want to be sure that this is not just a ploy for you to make War on someone else to enrich yourselves while we are bound by a NAP.

We think that either you give us the Great Spy that RB had payed to you for your help, or you give us the same amount of money you gave to RB as loan on preferential terms - the money are to be returned 25 turns after they are given without interest. Also, you must promise not to declare War on our allies CP and Poly during our NAP, nor can you declare War on WPC, who recently came to us asking for protection, seeing how large and powerful our military has grown.

If you agree to this, we will see your good will to be friends again, we will consider your recent transgressions null and sign a NAP to t240 with you to make it formal.


Team CFC