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Foreign Policy: UniversCiv

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by talonschild, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    We can use this - that we have agreement not to extend NAPs with them and that all allies are pissed at Uciv to blackmail them and extort some extraordinary things from them in exchange for lobbying to our supposedly close and devoted allies CP and Poly for sparring Uciv.
     
  2. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    In the same time we must not give away clues to ot4e and MZ that we are interested in NAP with Uciv more than normal. And I think we really need this NAP and friendly relations with Uciv.

    Killing off and partitioning Uciv would have been nice, but I just dont see how this will happen in practice. We need period of regrowth. And we need our allies armies, as Uciv might well out-tech us. CP have no border with Uciv at all. MZ will have real border with Uciv only if he conquer WPC. But we want to conquer WPC ourselves. Maybe we promise to leave 2-3 WPC cities to MZ to have him on our good side and not end in the RB's position of being obviously the bigger candidate for winner with most land and not enough time to utilize this land to turn it in to undone-able advantage. And with this plan (if it works) we will still be the biggest and we will have 2 secure borders and somewhat friendly nation - Poly and Uciv, which can balance things if CP and CivFR decide to jump at us. We can even ask from Uciv to keep somewhat garrison which must be gifted to us in case we are attacked by someone?
     
  3. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Sommers is right that Uciv have quite a sins to ask for forgiveness from us. We can either use this as source of anger and lust for their blood, or we can sell them indulgence at great price.
     
  4. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    I favor selling them indulgences, but we have to take WPC land before Poly, all the while not getting score lead and developing our lands and growing our military power. There is alot of complicated things to do and even more complicated diplomacy.
     
  5. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    So, I asked our allies CP and Poly if they are committed to attacking Uciv, because we had an agreement to not extend NAP with them without consulting the others. CP only asked if now is the right time to attack Uciv, to which I answer that now we have armies, to which they said nothing. Poly said they have still 30+ turns of NAP and they dont know if they will want war at that time.

    So I assume this as a "No" and we can sign our NAP with Uciv.

    We must ask/tell Uciv few things:

    1. We must emphasize that we have to speak to our allies because we were planning to punish Uciv for their deeds. Hopefully this will soften Uciv's knees and they will be ready to generously buy off their lives. Plus make them genuinely grateful to us for giving them a chance to live.

    2. We must ask for money gift/loan from Uciv. What sum would be appropriate to ask for if it is gift/ransom and what sum/terms if it is a loan?

    3. We must ask what happened with the RB GSpy. if they still have it, it will be great if we can have it - either as ransom/copensation, or to pay something for it.

    4. We must ask Uciv to build some 10-20 rifles army and gift them to us as compensation for the losses we had fighting the RB rifles.

    5. We must find a way to make sure Uciv wont attack WPC, as we already see them as rightful bounty for us (and some of it to MZ maybe to have him on our good side and maybe irritate ot4e to degree where he starts to plot in open against us and MZ with CivFR).

    6. Something else?
     
  6. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Proposed message to be sent to Uciv:

    It sounds a bit threatening and harsh, but I think it is necessary to make them soft so they give in to our demands. We were discussing this with Bistrita and we think that 3000 gold given to us now and returned in 20-30 turns will do us great job. We might ask for other things too. Depend how Uciv react.
     
  7. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Worst they can say is no. If they are not going to give us a huge loan then they are useless to us anyway.
     
  8. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Right. I dont like at all being rejected, but we have to take this risk, as the reward is great.
     
  9. Calis

    Calis on time

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    But you should not start with some demand and when they accept it put some further demand on top.
     
  10. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Of course. But this first message does not make demands.

    I think if we need to make demands in the first message. This is two-sided knife. If we put our demands, they will have the chance to look at them and not be scared from the unknown demands. But on the other hand, if we do put demands, they might decide: "Fuсk them, they start with the demands and ask too much" and not even bother answering us, where now they will have the chance to choose if they are willing to pay at all and then on next stage we put our demands and bargain them.
     
  11. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    My only suggestion is to remove the first complaint about them almost settling Zulu land. That happened long ago and they backed off as soon as we told them to, so bringing it up again seems somewhat petty. All the other issues are more legitimate complaints. Let's just start with them saying they would help us with RB, then they gave cash to RB instead.
     
  12. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    I disagree. Mentioning their attempt to steal the Zulu land is not petty, it reminds them that they have a bad track record with us all game. It points out that they have tried to outsmart us and steal from us in the past so we have cause to not trust their words alone. It also reminds them that we are not pushovers, and we will stand up to those who have wronged us or are getting ready to wrong us.
     
  13. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    That's fine with me, then. I'll send 2metra's message as-is in the next few hours barring any objections.
     
  14. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    This is not correct. The first time when they tried to settle the deer spot, we had to change workers plans, move military units to cover workers, change short plans, whip settler, etc, etc and we had to close borders to extract forcefully their settler. The second time when they sent a settler AFTER we had already told them we dont want them settle the land we fought for and that we need to have a deal about RB to let them settle any of our land, we had to send military units again to rattle sabers to their unprotected settler and to pillage the matured cottages around to make them think the pillaged land is not worth risking conflict with us. Plus I think the main reason why they sent their settler back the second time was they have chosen to side with RB and did not wanted to have a city hostage on our side of the shallow sea.

    So yeah, they acted if not arrogant, at least nasty and opportunistic, showing disrespect and unreliable to us.
     
  15. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Thinking a bit more, I would like to add/change few things to the message:

    Basically the same thing, but tells them in more concrete way that we want some things from them and the alternative is being dogpiled by the 3 of us.
     
  16. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    This is what Uciv had sent us last. Now I see they ask for our propositions:

    So now I think we must include specifics in our message.
     
  17. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Third proposal in a row:

    I want to put somehow the clause that they wont attack WPC, so we can take them :) But dont know how. Ideas?
     
  18. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    As last resort we just tell Uciv we want them to promise us they will not attack WPC :)
     
  19. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Some grammar guys?
     
  20. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Here is my edit of 2metra's message. I added the part about not attacking WPC and also took out the part about "manhood" which I thought some might find too insulting and cloud their judgment:

     

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