talonschild
Drive-By NESer
Yes. The only change I'd make is a definitive deadline, such as "the end of next turn", whenever that may be.
Foreign Policy: UniversCiv
- Thread starter talonschild
- Start date
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
After re-reading the last few pages of Uciv diplomacy thread, those are the two things that seems to be the possible handling of this situation.
I think we would not gain much by setting them deadlines or treating them. Why I think so:
- if they are friendly towards us, but just cant decide if they like the proposed no-settling border area, because this will leave them without other city in our direction beside the one they have near the stone. Then us wanting to set pressure on them will only give the hard-liners amongst their team one more argument by saying: "See, those CFC guys not only want us to make concessions to them, but they are pushing us about it! How they dare, lets just not sign what they want!"
- if they are trying to trick us with settling a city of theirs before they agree to the NAP, they will just keep silent and maybe hurry their settler by whipping it.
- if they are hostile towards us and "we dont forget about you" means "you will pay us dearly one day" or "you wont escape from our revenge" for some real or imaginary injustice we did to them, and their "bye" is "we are done talking with words, next time only the axe swings you will hear from our side", then us trying to hurry and press on them will make us only look desperate, screaming in horror when we see the freight train coming our way.
I think a short neutral message like
"We want to remind you we have a diplomatic agreement to finalize"
is in order. We are reserved, we dont treat, we dont push, we dont shout in panic. We remind them we have something "to finalize" as we already have this going for some time and we imply we made some progress, so if they now reject it completely, they might look as tricky and sly. It is small nuance, but sometimes small things are those who turn the tables.
Bowsling
Deity
With the Spaniards going to war, perhaps we should push harder now, and try and guarantee their neutrality?
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
How this could be? Pushing hard while under attack?
One thing which comes to my mind is we play it scared and promise them some concessions? But their silence till now and their postponing in response are making me believe we have a second enemy to our north to take in to consideration.
One thing which comes to my mind is we play it scared and promise them some concessions? But their silence till now and their postponing in response are making me believe we have a second enemy to our north to take in to consideration.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
I propose again we send this short and neutral message:
Caledorn
Emperor
I say send that asap given the current circumstances.
SilentConfusion
Emperor
I say send that message ASAP. I think there's no harm in it.
talonschild
Drive-By NESer
Sending in an hour unless there's a nay-sayer.
talonschild
Drive-By NESer
Sent.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Good. 
As I have said before... UCiv are attacking us... soon. Be ready.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
I am afraid of that too. But still secretly hope I am wrong. As this will be a whole new game. Fighting 2 nations on two fronts is... hmmm...
I think UCiv is a better candidate for "what is the price for peace" question - they seem more dangerous than Spanish 'Poly. Although I have no idea how open we should be about it - but since their mobilizing, probably not that much to loose. Best would be to ask such question privately, but they are avoiding in-game chatting, right?
How come we are being dogpiled, not RB?
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
To me Uciv does not look like mobilizing. Their graph is increasing gradually and not so steep. Also, they have way more cities than SpAp and HR, so their power is divided just as ours - a lot of cities and few units to keep the population happy.
They still can send 5-6 units to wreak havoc in our undefended flank.
They still can send 5-6 units to wreak havoc in our undefended flank.
What about telling them that Spaniards attacked us and that we want to know asap if our NAP is in effect? They will know about the war anyway, right? We can also offer them some incentives for cooperation - perhaps vaguely at this point? I have also no idea what peace with them will be worth to us now.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Peace or war with them can be the difference between life and death. So if we can secure NAP with them, that would be the best possible thing at this time. Problem is again how we achieve this without looking desperate. Because if we look desperate, Uciv will make the price for peace 10 times in their favor, or outright ignore the NAP and attack us, because if we look desperate, then there might be reason for that and Uciv will be better to just attack us. Not that they dont have great reason for attacking us even now (remember the two big kingdoms and the small one?)
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
I actually like the idea of sending them more direct message suggesting we are ready to pay for peace with them. It will work great even if they dont respond to us at all (I start to think we are already in a two-front war, just the declaration will come a bit later when they are at our borders actually ).
I think we must send them some kind of flattering message which repeats our desire we to be friends and work together, blah, blah then we ask them if there is something they might consider a good price for our friendship. If it achieve nothing else, we might use it as the apple of discord between the supposed allies and plotters Uciv and Spaniards.
We can then start talking to Spaniards we are in the process of negotiating/buying NAP with Uciv. This will either scare Spaniards - if they were relying on Uciv to crush us quick and easy and the perspective of them having to fight us alone scares the $hit out of them, or at least this will saw the seed of the doubts. They will start saying: "Uciv promised us they will attack with us, but what if they accept couple of cities and sign peace then? What we do if we are left to fight CFC alone? Better slow down our horses to see what is going on and not putting everything on risk with the assumption Uciv will be loyal partner to us." This might be all we need to give us time to prepare defense or to give us something to send Uciv and say: "Your allies the Spaniards are not much eager to come and die in our lands it seems. What if we tell you we have made them an offer for peace and they are considering it at the moment?" Most of the times dogpiles dont work because of the plotters uncertainties and because they suspect each-other in wanting to skip the hard fight, relying someone else to do the fighting and the dying for them.
). I think we must send them some kind of flattering message which repeats our desire we to be friends and work together, blah, blah then we ask them if there is something they might consider a good price for our friendship. If it achieve nothing else, we might use it as the apple of discord between the supposed allies and plotters Uciv and Spaniards.
We can then start talking to Spaniards we are in the process of negotiating/buying NAP with Uciv. This will either scare Spaniards - if they were relying on Uciv to crush us quick and easy and the perspective of them having to fight us alone scares the $hit out of them, or at least this will saw the seed of the doubts. They will start saying: "Uciv promised us they will attack with us, but what if they accept couple of cities and sign peace then? What we do if we are left to fight CFC alone? Better slow down our horses to see what is going on and not putting everything on risk with the assumption Uciv will be loyal partner to us." This might be all we need to give us time to prepare defense or to give us something to send Uciv and say: "Your allies the Spaniards are not much eager to come and die in our lands it seems. What if we tell you we have made them an offer for peace and they are considering it at the moment?" Most of the times dogpiles dont work because of the plotters uncertainties and because they suspect each-other in wanting to skip the hard fight, relying someone else to do the fighting and the dying for them.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Here is my idea of what we must send them.
vranasm
Deity
if they are truly allied in the war you give away unnecessary information.
I wouldn't put out our feelings about the war from spaniards...
I wouldn't put out our feelings about the war from spaniards...
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