Freedom of speech means freedom from repercussions?

[sophie]

WTH are you even talking about? My point is that people, particularly young people like to wear clothing "ironically". That is to say, they believe the exact opposite of whatever ideology their clothing is professing and they are, in fact, wearing the clothing as a joke. This is what the girl in the picture above is, in fact, doing. This is an example of "not believe the thing they are wearing." Which is the whole point of this tangent. I have no idea what you're on about tho.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

WTH are you even talking about? My point is that people, particularly young people like to wear clothing "ironically". That is to say, they believe the exact opposite of whatever ideology their clothing is professing and they are, in fact, wearing the clothing as a joke. This is what the girl in the picture above is, in fact, doing. This is an example of "not believe the thing they are wearing." Which is the whole point of this tangent. I have no idea what you're on about tho.

Oh, do forgive me for being 30 years older than the girl in the picture, and of a generation in which, if you wear a piece of clothing with a slogan or picture on it, it's expected that it means exactly what any normal person would think it means, instead of some silly "ironic" meaning.

I guess that's why I don't get a fair number of your posts; we're two different generations from two different countries, and I was raised by people two more generations removed besides.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think irony needs to be clearly illustrated, not just tossed on the assumption that it will be recognized. The girl in the "say no to drugs" shirt may have been being ironic.Her friends may very well appreciate such irony, and I can make such an assumption, but I have no way of really knowing. Now, if she was wearing the shirt and smoking a big fattie at the same time then the irony would be clear, even to strangers.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

This is probably applicable to the conversation.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=4999&GAID=13&DocTypeID=HB&SessionID=88&GA=99

 

[EnglishEdward]

This is probably applicable to the conversation.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=4999&GAID=13&DocTypeID=HB&SessionID=88&GA=99

An interesting draft that I am supportive of.

 

[Traitorfish]

Oh, do forgive me for being 30 years older than the girl in the picture, and of a generation in which, if you wear a piece of clothing with a slogan or picture on it, it's expected that it means exactly what any normal person would think it means, instead of some silly "ironic" meaning.

I think irony needs to be clearly illustrated, not just tossed on the assumption that it will be recognized. The girl in the "say no to drugs" shirt may have been being ironic.Her friends may very well appreciate such irony, and I can make such an assumption, but I have no way of really knowing. Now, if she was wearing the shirt and smoking a big fattie at the same time then the irony would be clear, even to strangers.

Is it really that ambiguous? "Say no to drugs" isn't just a statement, it's a heavily-publicised slogan from the 1980s. It's an era-specific cliché which nobody actually seeking to discourage drug use would employ. The only reasons somebody would wear a t-shirt bearing that slogan are irony and nostalgia, and she doesn't appear old enough to be personally nostalgic for it, nor is the slogan fondly-remembered enough that she's likely to have inherited any sort of second-hand nostalgia by cultural osmosis.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I think it's a bit much to expect anyone to be invested enough in somebody else's t-shirt to put that much thought into it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

"Say no to drugs" is a cartoon series for kids currently available. It is also half of the slogan (followed by "say yes to life," which may be on the back of her shirt) of more than one currently operating recovery organization. So, yeah, I think it is that ambiguous. I have nothing against ambiguity, because as I said her friends would know instantly what she meant and would no doubt appreciate the irony if that's what was intended. My only point was that to assume it should be read the same by everyone, whether they know her or not, seems a leap.

By the way, I think Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign might be getting crossed over into the "say no to drugs" slogan a bit.

 

[Traitorfish]

I think it's a bit much to expect anyone to be invested enough in somebody else's t-shirt to put that much thought into it.

It's not even much thought, is the thing. It's as blunt and one-dimensional an example of ironic hipster shirt-ing as you could ask for, which is, I presume, why Owen used it as an example. The only effort is unpackaging the interpretation. Perhaps Valka is right, it's a generational thing, so what's intuitive to some is obtuse to others, but this particular example isn't exactly the Enigma Code.

"Say no to drugs" is a cartoon series for kids currently available. It is also half of the slogan (followed by "say yes to life," which may be on the back of her shirt) of more than one currently operating recovery organization. So, yeah, I think it is that ambiguous. I have nothing against ambiguity, because as I said her friends would know instantly what she meant and would no doubt appreciate the irony if that's what was intended. My only point was that to assume it should be read the same by everyone, whether they know her or not, seems a leap.

By the way, I think Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign might be getting crossed over into the "say no to drugs" slogan a bit.

The shirt does actually say "Just Say No To Drugs", I just misquoted it. Nor does the design of the shirt really suggest a contemporary campaign; the font and colour choice are dated even for the non-profit sector. I won't say that you can always know for sure that a shirt is being worn ironically, it's simply that there's no other interpretations that don't require some unlikely leaps of imagination.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

"An interesting draft that I am supportive of."

Yes, it's one of several good moves. Now if the Illinois legislature could just come close to balancing a budget, we might actually have room for congratulations.

 

[aelf]

It's both hard and not always necessary, particularly if the reason is "because principle". Some people are better left to their devices as bigots, carrying on their daily lives "over there". I am ok with not living on or near a kkk compound. Some people need that "protection" or they act even more irrationally.

The whole premise of the thread, though, is that they don't want to just live "over there". They want to butt into public conversation and parade their opinions in the public eye without any real consequences whatsoever. Hence the "conservative safe space" tag. They want people to give them an expansive space to air their views safely.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I concede. She does have a pretty strong hipster vibe going in just about every way, so the shirt is most likely irony.

The whole premise of the thread, though, is that they don't want to just live "over there". They want to butt into public conversation and parade their opinions in the public eye without any real consequences whatsoever. Hence the "conservative safe space" tag. They want people to give them an expansive space to air their views safely.

I find it deliciously ironic that you are pointing this out, given who you are pointing it out to.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

The whole premise of the thread, though, is that they don't want to just live "over there". They want to butt into public conversation and parade their opinions in the public eye without any real consequences whatsoever. Hence the "conservative safe space" tag. They want people to give them an expansive space to air their views safely.

That's not what "safe space" means. You are reaching.

 

[Narz]

Here's another one.

God she's hot! It's amazing she's smart enough to become a doctor and yet dumb enough to do that... Just goes to show enough alcohol makes everyone into a developmentally disabled three year old.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It's not even much thought, is the thing. It's as blunt and one-dimensional an example of ironic hipster shirt-ing as you could ask for, which is, I presume, why Owen used it as an example. The only effort is unpackaging the interpretation. Perhaps Valka is right, it's a generational thing, so what's intuitive to some is obtuse to others, but this particular example isn't exactly the Enigma Code.


The shirt does actually say "Just Say No To Drugs", I just misquoted it. Nor does the design of the shirt really suggest a contemporary campaign; the font and colour choice are dated even for the non-profit sector. I won't say that you can always know for sure that a shirt is being worn ironically, it's simply that there's no other interpretations that don't require some unlikely leaps of imagination.

Yes, it's a generational thing, and I find it ridiculous. If you have a slogan on a t-shirt, what it says is what the wearer should mean. There was a time on the Cheezburger site (the older members here may recall that I belong to a site that makes, shares, and stores lolpics; I used to have the link in my sig) when there was a "collectible" program going on when we would collect little images and trade them. One was Hipster Cat (an orange tabby wearing glasses, a purple hoodie, and carrying a drum) and another was the Ironic Mustache. To this day I have no idea what either of those really means, although the cat was cute.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yes, it's a generational thing, and I find it ridiculous. If you have a slogan on a t-shirt, what it says is what the wearer should mean.

Well, why?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Well, why?

Why not? Isn't the purpose of a slogan on a t-shirt to convey some sort of message? And isn't it more sensible to do that in a straightforward way?

 

[sophie]

Why not? Isn't the purpose of a slogan on a t-shirt to convey some sort of message? And isn't it more sensible to do that in a straightforward way?

Yeah they are conveying a message. It's: look how dumb this slogan is. fudge REAGAN.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Okay, that's straightforward to you. But I'm not American, and Reagan was never anyone I was expected to respect, or even pay attention to at all, if I didn't want to.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I always find the Canadian independence thing is good for a chuckle.