Do you need guts to openly say as country government what satisfies sentiments among the popoulation ?
Or do you need guts as country government to say what annoys sentiments among the population, but is better for the country ?
French presidential election 2024
- Thread starter innonimatu
- Start date
Do you need guts to openly say as country government what satisfies sentiments among the popoulation ?
Or do you need guts as country government to say what annoys sentiments among the population, but is better for the country ?
These countries, considering US behaviour towards those questionning its hegemonic rules, had the guts to openly support the neutral position and THEIR own interests.
Akka
Moody old mage.
We'll have the legislative elections shortly. It's a chance to deprive Macron from a majority so he can't single-handedly ruin France like he did for five years and is forced to compromise.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
No matter how much you dislike him, he still had more votes than anyone else at both the first and second round. Who exactly would be more legitimate than him?
I agree though that it would be suicidal for Macron to go alone to the parliamentary election, but in a multi-party democracy where the leading party don't represent more than 28% at the first round of the presidential elections, it is suicidal for any party to go alone at the parliamentary elections. Everyone wants to win alone against everyone else. Such self-centeredness doesn't feel compatible with a democracy requiring the respect of the diversity of opinions, and therefore the one of others.
It's striking that the 4 candidates of the first round representing 80% of voters are totally alone, with no alliance, and holds next to no city council, metropolis, department or region (precisely because we need alliances even at local level to win those territories).
The best thing which would happen for the parliamentary elections would be for institutions to be respected again. And in the French 5th Republic, that means party alliances before the first round of the parliamentary elections, so that voters would know which alliance they would be voting for. And obiously 3 blocks emerged from this presidential elections:
- Mélenchon's radical left (and socialists, greens and communists should accept it and form an alliance)
- Macron's center-right (and right-wing LR, UDI should accept it and and form alliance, together with Modem which already did)
- Le Pen's populist right (and Zemmour, Dupont-Aignan should accept it and form an alliance).
That's certainly what I hope for in the interest of democracy itself. And may the best team win.
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The left (at least the greens and LFI) seem to be in the process of uniting. Some LR members are in favor of an alliance with Macron, but the core of LR isn't. And the RN seems to be refusing Zemmour's alliance proposal. So we'll see.
Akka
Moody old mage.
The best thing would be to reform the system to a more parliamentary one, with seats distributed more proportionally compared to votes, so we don't have a party with about 28-30 % votes being able to have absolute majority at all levels and being forced to negotiate.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
We already have parties being forced to negociate, at least in theory, it's only that parties refuse to negociate alliances in the first place. And if they do so, it's mostly because voters themselves refuse alliances and vote for "pure" candidates who don't make compromise with anyone else. That's what I meant by people wanting to win alone against everyone else. In doing so, it is voters themselves who don't respect democracy any longer, parties are only following the move.
Even in assuming that 3 blocks would be formed (which isn't done yet, as everyone hates everyone even within those blocks), there won't be a block representing the majority of voters in the end, no matter the system. And people will enrage no matter the system, because they can't see their ideology winning alone with everyone else accepting it. I believe that reject of compromise is the true reason of our democratic crisis.
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Akka
Moody old mage.
Yeah, and precisely, if no one has a majority in the national assembly, they'll be forced to compromise. Which will maybe bring back a bit of democratic culture.
Welcome to GOP politics in the US!
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
I hope you're right, but I strongly doubt it is the magic solution that everyone tells it is. If people rejected old alliances formed before the elections, they have no reason to accept new alliances that would be formed in their back, after the elections, leading people to feel "betrayed" (like Libdems in the UK under Cameron).
Mélenchon being forced to form a government with Macron won't be able to do his Bolivarian Revolution and his voters will feel betrayed, voting for even more populist the next time. If you reject the culture of compromise in the first place, it's not in forcing it that you would make people accepting it.
I believe we're too kind with ourselves, the voters. We voters are spoilt kids believing in unicorns, we believe that because it is democracy we are always right, and therefore we cannot be criticized because we are little kings. I disagree with this. I don't believe citizens in a democracy only have rights, I believe they also have duties. And we no longer accept our duties.
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Lexicus
Deity
Good to see Le Pen kept out. Hopefully she will not win in another five years.
Anyone else have the feeling that Macron is going to address "the anger that led you to vote for [Le Pen's] project" by peddling crude Islamophobia rather than any kind of move away from neoliberalism?
Anyone else have the feeling that Macron is going to address "the anger that led you to vote for [Le Pen's] project" by peddling crude Islamophobia rather than any kind of move away from neoliberalism?
Lexicus
Deity
Yeah, that's basically my understanding. A lot of the commentary about "victories against populism" in Europe seems to ignore that center-right (and increasingly "center-left") parties are increasingly adopting the positions and rhetoric of the far right.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
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- 14,796
I know next to nothing about the french greens? Are they anything like the german greens, getting young/professional/city dweller voters? Or a more recent formation attracting not just part of the former PS electorate but also with politicians who migrated from it? Or something else?
While the left collapses because it isn't popular. By choice.
He won't, there's no profit for him in it now, not past this summer's elections at least.
The post-Macron handling of the french voters may involve that, but Zemmour was a trial balloon and busted. Failed. I thing the french elites have a problem in their hands and no agreement on any plan, or even no plans ready to test now. The plan is to sit and wait to see how it's going, if Macron gets enough support from the summer elections to sail through the coming economic disaster with the usual state subsidies and protection for the rich and "austerity" for the poor. And if mere police repression, killing a few of the poor outright and blinding a few hundred, works again.
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Estebonrober
Deity
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- Jan 9, 2017
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- 5,404
Can anyone explain to me how this garbage thinking came to pass? Can anyone indicate a policy that France has been hamstrung on because of "suzerainty to the US"? All I ever hear from this reactionaries is a bunch of word salad with a lot of outrage and no, absolute zero, policy proposals.
Mostly young urban voters yes, and a few rural areas where pollution is a huge factor (like some alpine valleys where truck transit is a major issue). But generally what this election proved is that the left attracts mostly urban voters. Mélenchon did his best scores in low income urban centers and did poorly in low income rural areas (he did way worse than 5 years ago at least)
Last words there, with a sorry towards moderation :
Did France enforced an embargo the Us had to follow this last seventy years or was it the opposite ?
No more words from my part on this thread.
Anyone is free to read economists, philosophers and historians so he may understand the word better and avoid manicheism.
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On the subject, M. Macron is elected as estimated. Next are the legislatives in few weeks which shall be in favorable to the Europeist ideological bloc too (probably with inertia having still quite some PS and LR historical elects keeping their place)
EnglishEdward
Deity
Are you talking about Cuba?
