General Politics Thread

[Birdjaguar]

... I'm talking about the intent to murder. I dont think Chauvin wanted to kill Floyd.

Then why did he keep the already subdued and cuffed man in a "death grip" for 9 minutes? What do you think his intent was? Did Chauvin take the stand and state his intent? No, he said that if questioned on the stand, he would have to take to fifth to avoid incriminating himself. Your "opinion" about his intent is just your way of embracing police murder without saying so directly.

 

[Samson]

If anyone is interested, there is a leaked document that attempts to justify "Targeted killings", aka extrajudicial executions carried out by some mixture of private companies and uniformed military. To me it is honest enough that it is a total criticism of the policy.

 

[amadeus]

Isn’t that what happened to bin Laden?

 

[Samson]

Isn’t that what happened to bin Laden?

This is what they said about that:

 

[amadeus]

I’d have to review it on a case-by-case basis and not give a blanket yes/no. Reinhard Heydrich was assassinated, I don’t think there are too many of us today that would say we lost a great contributor to humanity.

 

[innonimatu]

Does anyone still believe in "humanitarian war"?
NATO was so concerned with "protecting civilians" it Libya that it kept bombing it until it finally achieved the goal of destroying it government and turning it into a lawless state of warring factions. Then NATO left, mission accomplished.

This is "protecting civilians"? No, and it never was. The mission was to destroy the government of a country that was telling and showing other african governments that they should act more independently and seek commerce and alliances from Asia also. The goal was to destroy, not to protect anyone in Libya.

 

[Samson]

Sudan army kills three anti-coup protesters, wounds 80

The Central Committee of Sudanese Doctors has said that three people died of gunshot wounds while at least 80 others were injured after being shot by military forces during protests against a military takeover on Monday.
Thousands of protesters poured into the streets of the capital, Khartoum, and its twin city of Omdurman following the early morning arrests of Prime Minister Abdalla Hamdok and other senior officials by security forces in the country.
​

 

[Broken_Erika]

Saudi crown prince suggested killing King Abdullah, ex-official says

Saudi Arabia's crown prince suggested using a "poison ring" to kill the late King Abdullah, a former top Saudi intelligence official has alleged.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-59032931

 

[Lexicus]

I’d have to review it on a case-by-case basis and not give a blanket yes/no. Reinhard Heydrich was assassinated, I don’t think there are too many of us today that would say we lost a great contributor to humanity.

Not that I disagree, of course, but Reinard Heydrich was a legitimate military target in a declared war between sovereign states, so I'm not sure his case is directly comparable to any activities the US is engaged in as part of the "war on terror."

 

[amadeus]

Not that I disagree, of course, but Reinard Heydrich was a legitimate military target in a declared war between sovereign states, so I'm not sure his case is directly comparable to any activities the US is engaged in as part of the "war on terror."

I had to look up if Czechoslovakia was technically at war with Germany—it was! The exiled government declared war on December 16th, 1941.

 

[Berzerker]

Then why did he keep the already subdued and cuffed man in a "death grip" for 9 minutes? What do you think his intent was? Did Chauvin take the stand and state his intent? No, he said that if questioned on the stand, he would have to take to fifth to avoid incriminating himself. Your "opinion" about his intent is just your way of embracing police murder without saying so directly.

There was no reason for him to testify about his intent, he was charged with unintentional murder. He didn't know Floyd was dying, his intent was to keep him subdued. I think the knee was unnecessary, he could have leaned on Floyd's shoulder if he continued resisting arrest. But I also think other factors contributed to Floyd's death, the drugs in his system and the struggle he had with the cops before Chauvin laid him down on the ground and pinned him there.

Floyd was complaining about breathing problems before Chauvin. People have been known to suffocate from positional asphyxiation from handcuffed arms, its possible Floyd would have died without Chauvin's knee on him anywhere. The police procedures apparently instruct repositioning a subdued (handcuffed) suspect once they settle down, Chauvin didn't do that nor did he observe Floyd's face.

“Chauvin will likely have his decision reversed because it is legally incompatible to say that someone is guilty of intentionally doing something and at the same time they’re guilty of unintentionally doing something,” said criminal defense attorney Andrew Wilson to VICE News.

Chauvin, a white cop, was found guilty of second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter in the fatal arrest of Floyd. He was sentenced to 22.5 years in prison. While the former cop plans to appeal his conviction, Wilson does not foresee a similar outcome to that of Noor.

“I don’t think it’s going to result in a reduction of his sentence,” Wilson said. “But I do think it poses real problems for that conviction to stand against him. So on appeal, they might get a reversal of that conviction.”

2nd degree "unintentional" murder, I said it was unintentional. The jury didn't convict Chauvin of intentionally killing Floyd, are they embracing police murder too?

 

[Samson]

Latest example of terrorism: Supporting the wrong cricket team

Police in Indian-administered Kashmir have filed criminal cases under a stringent anti-terror law against the students of two medical colleges in the region for celebrating Pakistan’s victory against India in the T20 World Cup.
Pakistan thrashed archrival India with a 10-wicket victory in the cricket match held in the United Arab Emirates on Sunday night. India’s loss triggered attacks against Kashmiri students in western Punjab state and a Muslim member of the Indian team was abused online.

Following Sunday’s match, there were similar celebrations in the disputed region over Pakistan’s first-ever win against India in a cricket World Cup.
Among those cheering were students from the region’s top medical colleges: the Government Medical College and the Sher-i-Kashmir Institute of Medical Sciences, both situated in the main city of Srinagar. Videos of their celebration outside their residential hostels went viral on social media.
On Tuesday, a senior police official told Al Jazeera that two cases under the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA) have been filed against an unknown number of students for causing “insult to the national sentiment during the cricket match”.

But the move has triggered outrage in the region since it comes a day after more than a dozen Kashmiri students were assaulted by a mob in at least two colleges in Punjab for celebrating Pakistan’s victory against India.
The students alleged they were watching the match in their rooms when people carrying sticks attacked them, seriously wounding some.

During the 2014 Asia Cup tournament, nearly 60 Kashmiri students were suspended by a college in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh after they celebrated Pakistan’s win over India. The charges were later dropped.
Ravinder Raina, the president of the ruling Bharatiya Janta Party (BJP) in Indian-administered Kashmir, said all those who cheered for “enemy country” Pakistan will be in jail soon.
“Those people who celebrated Pakistanis’ win in Kashmir or any other place, the case has been registered. These people will be identified and they will be behind bars soon,” Raina, who is based in the southern city of Jammu, told reporters.

A Kashmiri human rights lawyer, who did not want to be named, told Al Jazeera that shouting “Pakistan zindabad” (Long live Pakistan) after a cricket win is not legally wrong.
“The court will ultimately throw out the case against these students, but under UAPA, it is virtually impossible to secure bail,” he told Al Jazeera.
“It is very immature, insensitive and harsh to impose a stringent anti-terror law on students for a mere celebration, howsoever enthusiastic they may have been.”
​

Indian paramilitary soldiers patrol during a surprise check operation in Srinagar

 

[Broken_Erika]

Latest Twist that surprises......no one.
Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema blocking Biden's climate agenda
Joe Biden heads to Glasgow in the coming days for a crucial climate summit at which he hopes to cajole international partners into era-defining commitments to reduce carbon emissions. But two senators could undermine his green credentials at the worst possible time.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59060739

 

[Ferocitus]

International Tribunal on Human Rights Abuses
Against Black, Brown, and Indigenous Peoples
October 23-25, 2021
New York, NY, Turtle Island, Lenape land, USA

The decision is in!

GUILTY on ALL Counts!
After hearing from over 30 witnesses and receiving hundreds of documents, the Panel of Jurists found
the US government and its subdivisions GUILTY of Genocide and Gross Human Rights Violations. The
Executive Summary Verdict which follows is their preliminary report, with a detailed and cited ruling
to appear in the near future.

After having heard the testimony of numerous victims of Police Racism, Mass Incarceration,
Environmental Racism, Public Health Inequities and of Political Prisoners/Prisoners of War, together
with the expert testimonies and graphic presentations, as well as the copious documentation submitted
and admitted in the record, the Panel of Jurists find the US and its subdivisions GUILTY of all five
counts. We find grounds that Acts of Genocide have been committed.

Signed, 25 October 2021, Panel of Jurists
Church Center of the United Nations

Chief: Her Honorable Magdalene Moonsamy (South Africa), former Member of Parliament (ANC); Deputy Chair of the African Peer Review Mechanism, an instrument of the African Union; attorney-director of the Women’s Justice Foundation; Admitted Attorney of the South African High Court; lecturer of the Law Society of South Africa’s Legal Education and Development (LEAD) school
Deputy Chief: Wilma E. Reveron Collazo (Puerto Rico), long-standing member and leader, Colegio de Abogados de Puerto Rico (Puerto Rican Bar Association); former Executive Director of the Puerto Rico Center for Research assigned to the United Nations Office of Information on the Right to Self Determination; former Senior Staff Attorney, American Civil Liberties Union
Dr. Vickie Casanova-Willis (USA), Executive Director, US Human Rights Network; past president, National Conference of Black Lawyers (NCBL); founding member of Black People Against Police Torture; Co-organizer of the UN Working Group of Experts on People of African Descent and Working Group on Arbitrary Detention (US Visits); co-author of multiple historic policy-shaping reports including the first UN Universal Periodic Review raising the issue of US Political Prisoners and COINTELPRO
Kassahun Checole (Eritrea/USA), CEO and publisher, Africa World/Red Sea Press; renowned Pan Africanist and Pan American scholar; lifetime advisor of the Association of Concerned African Scholars and the African Studies Association
Sherly Fabre (Haiti/USA), International Fellowship of Reconciliation United Nations Representative; member, Muslim Peace Fellowship/Community of Living Traditions; co-founder, Proyecto Faro
Professor Mireille Fanon Mendès-France (France), former Chair of the United Nations Working Group on People of African Descent; former Commissioner of the 2020 International Commission on Inquiry (Systemic Racist Police Violence against US People of African Descent); Judge of Permanent Peoples Tribunal; Co-Chair of the Frantz Fanon Foundation
Dr. Alexander Hinton (USA), Director of the Center for the Study of Genocide and Human Rights, Rutgers University; UNESCO Chair on Genocide Prevention; Distinguished Professor of Anthropology
Chairman Brian Moskwetah Weeden (Mashpee Wampanoag), Chairman of the Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe; Bear Heart from Eel Clan; Co-President/Trustee of the United National Indian Tribal Youth (UNITY); Co-Vice President of the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) Youth Commission
Binalakshmi “Bina” Nepram (Manipur/Northeast India), Founder-Director, Manipur Women Gun Survivors Network; Founder-Director, Global Alliance of Indigenous Peoples, Gender Justice and Peace; Board member of the International Peace Bureau (1910 Nobel Peace Laureate)

https://www.tribunal2021.com/news

 

[Berzerker]

I keep hearing Biden isn't raising taxes on people who make under 400k, but he is raising taxes on businesses who will try to pass some of it onto consumers who make less than 400k a year.

 

[mitsho]

... when they wouldn't need to.

I think that's an important point here. It's not a natural law that they have to keep passing it down. If the market were functioning by the way, these customers would look for other competitors offering the same products for less money.

@Ferocitus I think I need a bit more context here.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Are these the same businesses who got tax cuts in corporate tax rates from 35 to 21 percent in 2017 in the comically named: Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. Oh well, there were half right.

The administration at the time claimed it would result in higher wages for workers. It didn't. They claimed it would massively boost spending on investments. It didn't. They claimed the average U.S. household income would increase annually by at least $4,000. It didn't.

Meanwhile in reality ...
Corporations were holding large amounts of cash
They were able to access capital very cheaply with interest rates at historic lows for almost a decade already. The effective tax rates on U.S. corporate investment, especially debt-financed investment, were already quite low, indicating that the cost of capital—let alone the portion attributable to taxes—was hardly holding back corporate investment
The revenue was passed down to shareholders, not the workers, not the customers.
The U.S. Treasury reported that from fiscal year 2017 to FY 2018, the federal budget deficit increased by $113 billion while corporate tax receipts fell by about $90 billion, which would account for nearly 80 percent of the deficit increase.
The International Monetary Fund concluded in 2018 that investments were driven by strong aggregate demand in the economy—not the supply-side factors that tax cut proponents used to justify the tax cut. Private nonresidential investment actually declined in the second quarter of 2019.

Instead of substantially increasing investment, the windfall businesses received largely went to paying off wealthy investors. One analysis of Fortune 500 companies found that just 20 percent of increased cashflow in 2018 was spent on increasing capital expenditures or research and development. The remaining 80 percent of cashflow went to investors through buybacks, dividends, or other asset planning adjustments. The vast majority of corporate stocks are held by the wealthy, including foreign investors, and thus they are the ultimate beneficiaries of the windfall corporate tax cuts.

And now the usual ding dongs are wailing: "That evil president Biden is being mean to bizznizzes! And those poor, poor bizznizzes have no other option to be mean to us as a result!"

It's funny because it's bollocks.

 

[Drakle]

The Framework of the bill has been released, which could be the rough outline of the actual bill. Who really knows.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/10/28/build-back-better-framework/

Details in the bill.
The Rough Spending Numbers

Child Care and Preschool $400 Billion
Home Care 150 Billion
Child Tax & Earned Income Tax Credits 200 Billion
Clean Energy and Climate Investments 555 Billion
ACA Credits, Including in Uncovered States 130 Billion
Medicare Hearing 35 Billion
Housing 150 Billion
Higher Ed and Workforce 40 Billion
Equity & Other Investments 90 Billion
Total 1750 Billion
Immigration 100 Billion

(Not sure what is up with the immigration line item being under the Total).

You can see which priorities they ended up focusing on. The Family Leave got nickeled and dimed too much to be worthwhile, so that got cut. The big Medicare expansion reduced to hearing. Climate change got reduced but survived decently intact (good for the big climate summit about to happen). Free college cut. Tax credits are still in bill, but for a reduced time frame.

Overall, a-okay Climate, and Family Bill, and a few scraps of other stuff.

The Taxes to pay for this are

Offsets – Estimates, Subject to Confirmation
15% Corporate Minimum Tax on Large Corporations 325 Billion
Stock Buybacks Tax 125 Billion
Corporate International Reform to Stop Rewarding Companies That Ship Jobs and Profits Overseas 350 Billion
AGI Surcharge on the Top 0.02% 230 Billion
Close Medicare Tax Loophole for Wealthy 250 Billion
Limit Business Losses for the Wealthy 170 Billion
IRS Investments to Close the Tax Gap 400 Billion
Prescription Drugs: Repeal Rebate Rule 145 Billion
Up to a Total of: 1995 Billion

So over 10 years, this bill would end up slightly reducing the Deficit, since the Taxes work out to be more than the spending.

Oh and to put this in perspective, this 10-year bill, is what the Pentagon spends in 2 years. Even with the Afghanistan withdrawal, the Pentagon budget keeps going up.

And all the Inflation whining is silly, because other countries who didn't spend big, are having big inflation spikes, as they emerge from COVID. Inflation is the economies readjusting, not the spending.

Of course, this bill also has smaller stuff that doesn't really show up in the big line items. For example, the Pro Act is still part of the bill, and one of the key measures in that is hefty fines for businesses engaging in shady Union Busting tactics. Manchin officially backs this as a old-school Labor Democrat, the holdout is possibly Sinema.

Progressives are still trying to get the full Drug Negotiation back in instead of the small one (massive support for it, and it would save the Government money), while some corporatists are still trying to get SALT back in, and who knows what is going on in the mind of Manchin and Sinema.

But it's very hard to somehow make this a bill soaking the poor and middle class. It expands Healthcare to millions of people, big spending on childcare and early education, parents and the working poor get more money from the tax credits, building more housing, and spending on clean energy which will lower power prices and reduce carbon emissions.

The rich taxes are very unlikely to hit downwards. Stock buybacks are companies giving away money, they should be incentivized against doing that, and instead, do more R&D or investment. The global tax reform and offshoring hit companies offshoring and outsourcing. The IRS funded at the level it's supposed to be, so it can catch tax cheats. Then taxes on the very wealthiest.

 

[Farm Boy]

It's funny because magic handwaiving too. So much BS in the air zigs, it's like the orange man never left.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You know when you've been Tango-ed!