General Politics Thread

[Sommerswerd]

That's true for a lot of things. The expression about "the sausage being made" springs to mind. People want to wear the sneakers, and play with the I-phones... they don't want to hear about Chinese sweatshops. People want the 2-day AMAZON-Prime delivery... they don't want to hear about the suffering Amazon workers... and so on.

 

[Samson]

EU President and Mike Pompeo speak at event organised by marxist terrorist organisation Mujahedeen-e Khalq

The organization's Free Iran 2021 World Summit began Sunday and concludes Tuesday. The virtual event focused on highlighting “the role the Iranian regime has played to spread chaos and destruction in the region and across the world,” according to a press release from the group.

The Mujahedeen-e-Khalq, formed in 1965 as a Marxist organization, seeks to overthrow the Islamic Republic of Iran and is outlawed by it. Both the United States and the European Union previously listed the Mujahedeen-e-Khalq as a terrorist organization, though both designations have been rescinded.

Slovenian Prime Minister Janez Jansa spoke during the group's summit. The Eastern European leader called for an investigation into Iranian President-elect Ebrahim Raisi’s involvement in the 1988 killings of thousands of political dissidents in Iran.

“The regime is at its weakest point in decades,” said Pompeo, according to the Mujahedeen-e-Khalq release. He also said, “Engagement with the regime will make lengthen the time that the regime has to behave as it has for these past decades denying basic human dignity and opportunity to the Iranian people.”​

 

[Snowygerry]

He's not EU president, but PM of Slovenia.

Slovenia however does preside over the various EU councils for the next 6 months, not an unimportant nuance.

Pompeo to my knowledge currently has no function at all.

They can pretty much say whatever they want.

 

[Samson]

He's not EU president, but PM of Slovenia.

Slovenia however does preside over the various EU councils for the next 6 months, not an unimportant nuance.

Pompeo to my knowledge currently has no function at all.

They can pretty much say whatever they want.

Oh yeah, I had not got that detail:

The presidency is not an individual, but rather the position is held by a national government. It is sometimes incorrectly referred to as the "president of the European Union". The presidency's function is to chair meetings of the council, determine its agendas, set a work programme and facilitate dialogue both at Council meetings and with other EU institutions. The presidency is currently, as of July 2021, held by Slovenia.

 

[Ferocitus]

Have the tribes heard of Joe Biden's minimum 15% corporation tax rate plan?

Please tell me that corporations will be able to pay in crypto. I need a good laugh.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I thought that the US had a law stating that private citizens may not conduct international diplomacy? I know Canada has one. If the US doesn't have such a law, then I can see a world of trouble coming from Trumpians.

If they do, Pompeo should be put in jail.

 

[Naskra]

I thought that the US had a law stating that private citizens may not conduct international diplomacy?

The Logan Act. never enforced, for good reason.

 

[amadeus]

You would have to arrest John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, and John Kerry a second time.

Kerry went to Nicaragua in the 1980’s, Pelosi went to Syria in the 2000’s, and Kerry met with Iran’s foreign minister a few years ago.

If you started charging people under the act, at least we could call it Logan’s Run.

 

[Gorbles]

You're saying this like people are going to say they shouldn't, lol.

 

[Farm Boy]

I don't think it would help. We like it a little bit more real and raucous. Shame, rather than the cage, is better here.

 

[amadeus]

You're saying this like people are going to say they shouldn't, lol.

The text of the statute is pretty broad.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.​

 

[Sommerswerd]

Dennis Rodman?

 

[Berzerker]

without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse

President's elect and their staff and members of Congress probably have the authority of the US

 

[amadeus]

Dennis Rodman?

Depends. What is the "authority of the United States" and what is a "dispute?" I think there are any number of statutes under which Rodman could have been arrested if his goodwill ambassadorship really threatened the primacy of elected officials in foreign policy.

If you really wanted to go further than that, could you charge an environmentalist group that lobbies a foreign government not to buy some American product? Or even a product by an American ally? At some point you would have to arrest Noam Chomsky just for saying what he thinks because some agent of a foreign government could buy his book and be convinced by his arguments.

 

[Samson]

without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse

President's elect and their staff and members of Congress probably have the authority of the US

Aren't we talking about Pompeo talking to Mujahedeen-e Khalq?

 

[Gorbles]

The text of the statute is pretty broad.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.​

Your argument seems to be "we shouldn't imprison this person because then we'd have to imprison others who also broke the rule" and it's like, who's going to go to bat for Pelosi or Kerry? Really? The imbalance of power is real in that an Average Joe or Jane will happily be imprisoned by the US' prison-centric justice system for the same thing regardless.

Farm Boy's anti-cage sentiments are a better argument here, though of course that has a somewhat wider scope than "punishing self-interested politicians".

 

[Samson]

Your argument seems to be "we shouldn't imprison this person because then we'd have to imprison others who also broke the rule" and it's like, who's going to go to bat for Pelosi or Kerry? Really? The imbalance of power is real in that an Average Joe or Jane will happily be imprisoned by the US' prison-centric justice system for the same thing regardless.

Why does no one say we should not be locking up poor people for drugs because then we would have to lock up rich people for drugs?

 

[amadeus]

The imbalance of power is real in that an Average Joe or Jane will happily be imprisoned by the US' prison-centric justice system for the same thing regardless.

The last person charged under the statute was a railroad tycoon who died in 1883. I think Average Joe is safe from prosecution.

 

[Gorbles]

The last person charged under the statute was a railroad tycoon who died in 1883. I think Average Joe is safe from prosecution.

So why does it matter that the statute is broad? If the only people impacted are self-interested politicians, what's the "good reason" mentioned earlier? You didn't say it, but you evidently agree, and I don't think it's because you (or Naskra) are prison abolitionists. I could be wrong though.

 

[amadeus]

So why does it matter that the statute is broad?

The most pressing practical question is whether it would even stand up in the courts on constitutional grounds if pursued.

I don’t think either Pompeo or Kerry (who in 2018 was a private citizen like Pompeo is today) have the weight to meaningfully impact foreign policy with what it is they were doing.