[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[rah]

I hope those protesting outside the white house were reminded of their second amendment rights.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

It's 2020 and we live in a fascist police state run by a syphilitic incompetent.

 

[REDY]

A police officer shooting an unarmed person, whether there was an altercation or not, is murder. A self-appointed vigilante engaging an unknown, unarmed person, and shooting them in an alleged altercation is murder.

Murder overrules any claims to self-defence, unless the victims were wielding guns, which they demonstrably did not. One should have been trained to not shoot, and the other should not have taken justice into his own hands. These are basic civic duties and also basic human decency.

In first case was struggle for that gun and warning shots. In second place its more shady, but most plausible version was that so called murderer was under the victim agressively beaten and repeatadly crying for help before shooting.

 

[Samson]

In his speech today Trump reminded his supports of their second amendment rights, a clear signal that citizens can shoot people in the name of keeping order. I guess he forgot that ?blacks also have second amendment rights to defend themselves. Trouble ahead.

Is not the primary reason for the second amendment to prevent the state enforcing their will on the population with guns? Is he not telling people to shot at the police?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Is not the primary reason for the second amendment to prevent the state enforcing their will on the population with guns? Is he not telling people to shot at the police?

Well, yes, but Trump only speaks to his die hard followers who want to open carry their guns and provoke people. They will see themselves defending their liberty from unruly blocks.

 

[Zkribbler]

Trump has gone on tv, thrown a bible around, smiled, and acted like he was winning, and spouted about Martial Law, or W/e.

He also used troops to clear away peaceful protestors.

 

[El_Machinae]

Of course no one would recommend it, but sometimes it's just something that needs to be done. If the people just sit around waiting for some great leader to swoop in and liberate them, then things are only going to get worse.

The ratio of successful civil uprisings to net-failures isn't very good.

 

[Joij21]

Trump has gone on tv, thrown a bible around

I think he knows it's going to get bloody tonight. Especially after the orders he has just given. This is his way of pulling off a Pontius Pilot stunt and saying, "the blood is not on my hands and Jesus is with me! So help me God!"

 

[Ajidica]

I will admit, I'm always surprised when Trump goes near a church and isn't immediately struck by a lightning bolt.

 

[Estebonrober]

That was the kid with the toy gun right?

The one that really told me something was wrong was Philando Castile. He did everything right and still got murdered in front of his kid. Then they tried to victim blame with some garbage about marijuana. Pissed me off. Now the same scuzzbag lawyer from that case is working for Chauvin.

Yes it was and it was inexcusable.

 

[Estebonrober]

Tamir Rice is certainly a tragic example. No argument there. But if he pointed a realistic-looking toy gun at a police officer, it's hard to fault the officer for what happened. (did it have an orange tip? I don't think so but I don't trust my memory. I'm doing good to remember their names)

"I'm doign good remembering their names. . ." this says everything I need to know.

It does not matter if the kid pointed a real gun at the officer. Until fired upon he should not be shooting children. Maybe surveil the area for a moment, they rode up and hopped out guns blazing. In any other profession they;d be fired for willful malfeasance and be looking at jail time for such reckless regard for life.

 

[Ajidica]

Minnesota ACLU has some thoughts on the charge of murder3, relevant excerpt:

The complaint filed by the Hennepin County Attorney’s Office charging former officer Chauvin with Third Degree Murder is potentially deficient on its face and therefore incurably defective because, under Minnesota law, Third Degree Murder applies only when the acts of the defendant were committed without regard to their effect on any particular person, and not when the actions were directed to a specific person. Minnesota courts have repeatedly ruled that to support a charge of Third Degree Murder, the offender’s actions need to be “eminently dangerous to more than one person.”[1] This has been the law in Minnesota since 1896 and includes numerous state Supreme Court decisions stretching all the way to the present saying the same thing.

The relevant facts in this case are clear. Officer Chauvin's actions were directed solely towards George Floyd and were not “eminently dangerous” to anyone other than George Floyd, although Chauvin and the other officers may well have been aware that their actions would ultimately spark the public outrage that has ravaged the Twin Cities ever since. The charge for Third Degree Murder therefore potentially will not stick.

It is inconceivable that experienced, professional Hennepin County prosecutors did not recognize the potential flaws in the Third Degree Murder charge. Charging Third Degree Murder instead of charging Second Degree murder or seeking an indictment for First Degree murder only serves to further undermine community trust in the Hennepin County Attorney's Office. This is why the LRC and ACLU-MN demand the IMMEDIATE amendment of the murder charge and appointment of a Special Prosecutor.

https://www.aclu-mn.org/en/press-re...BAR-s1bJfM7aYgahIAb2sdTNTrYixHE3KDD0MPMOKqqgo

EDIT: Also, for anyone who is interested, I was talking with my uncle who was a cop and police trainer in New York City in the 70s through 90s and he was surprised the MPD still used neck restraints.

Looked into the MPD force policy and was unpleasantly surprised. They allow the carotid choke. They call it a neck restraint but it permits pressure to one or both sides of the neck applied with an arm or leg. Unusual today but what is shocking is that it is permitted at the level of active resistance.
Los Angeles, where choking was popular, raised it to deadly force {like a gun} in ’82. Our area followed suit in “84. I don’t know anyone who ever used a choke anyway. Minn. P.D. is nearly 40 years behind the times. In any case it wasn’t proper for that situation.

 

[Takhisis]

The answer to both is that the US claims to be a democracy:

Of course no one would recommend it, but sometimes it's just something that needs to be done. If the people just sit around waiting for some great leader to swoop in and liberate them, then things are only going to get worse.

The people are the leaders.

If only real life were as easy as civ. Unfortunately, it looks like Trump is going with d) garrison military unit in city center.

That one doesn't work, you have no military police allowed. Unless you've switched to Fascism or Monarchy, I suppose.

 

[Lexicus]

If people had told me last year that the second american civil war would start from a protest in may during a global pandemic and with members of congress openly demanding people be shot in the streets I would have thought they belonged in an institution.

I predicted a sequence of events pretty much exactly like this when Trump won the election.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Minnesota ACLU has some thoughts on the charge of murder3, relevant excerpt:

https://www.aclu-mn.org/en/press-re...BAR-s1bJfM7aYgahIAb2sdTNTrYixHE3KDD0MPMOKqqgo

EDIT: Also, for anyone who is interested, I was talking with my uncle who was a cop and police trainer in New York City in the 70s through 90s and he was surprised the MPD still used neck restraints.

Whoa, they charged police officer Derek Chauvin with 3rd degree murder knowing it would get thrown out?
Are they insane?

Those riots would make these riots look like fun kittens.

It is inconceivable that experienced, professional Hennepin County prosecutors did not recognize the potential flaws in the Third Degree Murder charge.

Uhh, hopefully the American Civil Liberties Union is just misunderstanding something.

 

[Takhisis]

I'm seeing on the news that Donald Trump held a Bible on camera. Probably he's never opened it because it says that a) thou shalt not kill, b) thou shalt not bear false witness and c) render unto God… and unto Cæsar. And he's the Cæsar, the temporal authority that is failing to uphold its own rules.

Whoa, they charged him with 3rd degree murder knowing it would get thrown out?
Are they insane?

I think they simultaneously charged him with manslaughter, so this might not be an accident.

 

[Ajidica]

Whoa, they charged police officer Derek Chauvin with 3rd degree murder knowing it would get thrown out?
Are they insane?

Those riots would make these riots look like fun kittens.

As far as the charges go, they can be amended as the investigation proceeds. I just hope this was just the Hennepin County prosecutors trying to move too quickly and not fully thinking things through - which is why I fully support to AG's office under Keith Ellison taking over and would also support an outside prosecutor taking over to make sure things are thought through better.

Minnesota AG Keith Ellison to take over case in Floyd killing

In an unusual legal maneuver, Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison will take the lead in the prosecution of the fired Minneapolis police officer charged with killing George Floyd, an unarmed black man who died last week in police custody.

Gov. Tim Walz said Sunday that he concluded Ellison needed to take over the case from the Hennepin County Attorney’s Office at the urging of Floyd’s family, community activists, and some members of the Minneapolis City Council seeking a vigorous prosecution of the officer, 44-year-old Derek Chauvin.

“This decision is one that I feel takes us in that direction and the step to start getting the justice for George Floyd,” Walz said Sunday. “When I spoke to the Floyd family they were very clear: They wanted the system to work for them. They wanted to believe that there was trust and they wanted to feel like the facts would be heard and justice would be served.”

Ellison said he plans to “bring to bear all the resources necessary” to prosecute the case. “I just want to let the public know we are pursuing justice, we are pursuing truth, we are doing it vigorously,” Ellison said.
...
Ellison said Friday that he had “every expectation” authorities would press charges against all four officers involved in Floyd’s arrest. But after officially taking over the Floyd case Sunday, he said he could not talk about possibility of other charges.

“It’s just too early to discuss that,” he said.

https://www.startribune.com/ag-keith-ellison-to-take-over-case-in-floyd-killing/570911922/

Ellison was formerly the Representative of Ilhan Omar's district - smack in the heart of Minneapolis and was also both the first African-American and first Muslim elected to statewide office in Minnesota.
Not at all sad to see Mike Freeman sidelined. From what I've heard he is way too involved in the DFL* party establishment in Minneapolis for his own good and loves playing power games.

*Democratic Farmer Labor, our version of the Democratic Party.

 

[Lexicus]

Is not the primary reason for the second amendment to prevent the state enforcing their will on the population with guns? Is he not telling people to shot at the police?

No, the second amendment's primary purpose was to maintain the armed force necessary to put down slave insurrections. You can see things have changed less than we like to pretend.

 

[Estebonrober]

No, the second amendment's primary purpose was to maintain the armed force necessary to put down slave insurrections. You can see things have changed less than we like to pretend.

This is abundantly clear as we watch libertarian types who confess to support the BLM movement in this case instantly turn on protesters at the slightest provocation while ignoring repeated police violence against peaceful civilians.

 

[H4run]

No, the second amendment's primary purpose was to maintain the armed force necessary to put down slave insurrections. You can see things have changed less than we like to pretend.

This is abundantly clear as we watch libertarian types who confess to support the BLM movement in this case instantly turn on protesters at the slightest provocation while ignoring repeated police violence against peaceful civilians.

This is something really new to me, I thought the American have right to armed themselves in order to protect themselves from state oppression.