Northern Pike
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The drive east:
GR12 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea
- Thread starter Greebley
- Start date
ThERat
Deity
nice progress, but I wonder why the research time for electricity is that long...another 6 turns, too bad
so what do we research after that? RP I assume
so what do we research after that? RP I assume
RP absolutely as hard as possible. The cost for RP will be something like 10k and ELec is 13k.
Northern Pike
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ThERat said:
Well, give or take Steam Power, it's the first tech we've researched in a long time that no other civ has.
After we get RP, I think we should go for TOE next. We have 33 turns left on our prebuild and want to get it around then. We may even have to slow our prebuild down some to not have the palace built.
I think the game will be long enough we should go for Hoover with TOE. With the AI having Rifles, it will be hard to advance quickly without tanks. I think we can expect the game to last that long. Getting to the Modern age is certainly a possibility.
So RP, Med, Sci Meth, Ind. How does this sound?
After that espionage is an interesting choice. We could steal techs using the money we get from Razing cities.
I think the game will be long enough we should go for Hoover with TOE. With the AI having Rifles, it will be hard to advance quickly without tanks. I think we can expect the game to last that long. Getting to the Modern age is certainly a possibility.
So RP, Med, Sci Meth, Ind. How does this sound?
After that espionage is an interesting choice. We could steal techs using the money we get from Razing cities.
Roster:
Greebley
ThERat
Northern Pike - Just Played
Beorn-eL-Feared - Up
markh - On Deck
Vxma
Greebley
ThERat
Northern Pike - Just Played
Beorn-eL-Feared - Up
markh - On Deck
Vxma
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
On my way
xcl
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Northern Pike
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Greebley said:
I agree. We've only got about a fifth of the land we'll need for domination; riflemen are already around to slow us down; and I think we have to plan on the game's lasting quite a while longer. So ToE, Hoover, and factories all sound good to me.
Greebley said:
Not fond of Espionage for this game as I doubt we will have many techs to steal. We are doing about 1100 beakers now and no one is anywhere close to that. We are doing techs ahead of them and will stay that way.
I guess if you see a value in stealing Communism/Facism and later Sanitation. Techs we should not research. We could use the money to rush things, maybe aquas in a few places, maybe a few well placed temples or libs for culture epxansion or short rushing tanks.
If we do want tanks, then why go for Hoovers? Why not take the two techs and finish off the prereqs for tanks? Then could research as you suggest and after Ind get straight to tanks with ToE paving the way.
I still say we have no problem getting Hoovers, if you want it, but after tanks. I think I estimated the top bpt being around 600. That means we are nearly twice them and will gain even more with more and more towns. They will be gaining little. Especially once we threathen their workers to stop railing.
I do not know if we get to Modern Age or not. By that I mean us as well as some AI civs. We probably will, but I do not see them making it. Choosing to get to hoovers over tanks will slow us down some IMO. Because as you say tanks will make busting those rifles easier and quicker.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: Good job on the move east. 
BTW, it looks like you are reaching the Sumerian core (judging by the city names). Keep it up! 
BTW, it looks like you are reaching the Sumerian core (judging by the city names). Keep it up!
Hoover's 50% boost of production is huge. I guess the real reason is I dispise coal plants. You get hit by pollution all the time and it is really annoying not to mention cutting down your production and causing cities to starve.
Also I don't like using TOE to get us cheaper techs since I feel we are going to be getting Ele and Ato anyway before the game ends. Those are the two most expensive techs of the industrial age IIRC.
Besides if we go for Nationalism and Espionage, then we can steal Corp and refining, steel from the AI. They are ahead of us and I suspect (not sure though) will remain ahead for a while.
Also I don't like using TOE to get us cheaper techs since I feel we are going to be getting Ele and Ato anyway before the game ends. Those are the two most expensive techs of the industrial age IIRC.
Besides if we go for Nationalism and Espionage, then we can steal Corp and refining, steel from the AI. They are ahead of us and I suspect (not sure though) will remain ahead for a while.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Pre-Turn:
Looks good, a bit of tinkering with the beakerheads: more where we are size 7+ or aqua isn't worth it now, less where we could use growtrh/size 7+
IT
Painful bombies
T1.
NW: Check [8-0] looks quiet for now. More navy than hurt. Get a zillionth cav army.
NE: Check [7-0] At some point in mayan history, someone overdid the jav production, and never sent anyone to war. Stack of 20 ETA 1 turn
E: Check [4-0] Something like half the troops I send to fight get redlined
SE: [3-1] Recall several pikemen from the core to make an act of presence on front towns
IT
2-2 IBT, the dutch gave it to a frontline town where muskets cover a redlined mace army
They also drop 6 cavs by Babylon
T2.
NW: [14-0] Sending 2 armies east for the mayans, it's nice in here this turn anyways
NE: Check [28-0] Mayans thwarted
E: [6-0] Prepare for a new town row
SE: [14-0] 884, 867g razing Dutch towns
Inquisitively looking for furs, I find out Dora has 15 extra sources
So far [86-3]
IT
Dutch boats redline a knight cover army and the egyptians almost kill it with their 3rd knight [3-0]
T3.
NW: [15-0] Ottoman knights in sight
NE: [2-0] Calm after the storm
E: [13-1] fish for leaders, lose a vet cav on a 1HP pike
SE: [13-0] Egypt is taking a blow, find brand new Dutch borders
IT
Lose a pike to a dutch cav ... in the north ... [129-5]
T4.
NW: Railing
NE: Quiet
E: Settling
SE: Pushing hard, 6 cav armies going for the Dutch gold right now
I'm having a hard time focusing, couldn't keep track of the score and I did many mis-clicks this turn so I feel I need to give it back. I liked NP's idea of high-lighting several units to give pointers as to where stuff is, so I repeated the event.
It seems that as much as I under-did the leader fishing last time, I over-corrected it this time. I lost a 2-3 cavalries to 1HP units but got 1 more army. Now that we have high speed comunication netted, we can take advantage of those periods of inactivity in the NE and NW to juggle units around and push faster the eastwards expansion when we can.
Have fun !
Looks good, a bit of tinkering with the beakerheads: more where we are size 7+ or aqua isn't worth it now, less where we could use growtrh/size 7+
IT
Painful bombies
T1.
NW: Check [8-0] looks quiet for now. More navy than hurt. Get a zillionth cav army.
NE: Check [7-0] At some point in mayan history, someone overdid the jav production, and never sent anyone to war. Stack of 20 ETA 1 turn
E: Check [4-0] Something like half the troops I send to fight get redlined
SE: [3-1] Recall several pikemen from the core to make an act of presence on front towns
IT
2-2 IBT, the dutch gave it to a frontline town where muskets cover a redlined mace army
They also drop 6 cavs by Babylon
T2.
NW: [14-0] Sending 2 armies east for the mayans, it's nice in here this turn anyways
NE: Check [28-0] Mayans thwarted
E: [6-0] Prepare for a new town row
SE: [14-0] 884, 867g razing Dutch towns
Inquisitively looking for furs, I find out Dora has 15 extra sources
So far [86-3]
IT
Dutch boats redline a knight cover army and the egyptians almost kill it with their 3rd knight [3-0]
T3.
NW: [15-0] Ottoman knights in sight
NE: [2-0] Calm after the storm
E: [13-1] fish for leaders, lose a vet cav on a 1HP pike
SE: [13-0] Egypt is taking a blow, find brand new Dutch borders
IT
Lose a pike to a dutch cav ... in the north ... [129-5]
T4.
NW: Railing
NE: Quiet
E: Settling
SE: Pushing hard, 6 cav armies going for the Dutch gold right now
I'm having a hard time focusing, couldn't keep track of the score and I did many mis-clicks this turn so I feel I need to give it back. I liked NP's idea of high-lighting several units to give pointers as to where stuff is, so I repeated the event.
It seems that as much as I under-did the leader fishing last time, I over-corrected it this time. I lost a 2-3 cavalries to 1HP units but got 1 more army. Now that we have high speed comunication netted, we can take advantage of those periods of inactivity in the NE and NW to juggle units around and push faster the eastwards expansion when we can.
Have fun !
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
CA2 tells me the most expensive techs will be Atomic theory and Electronics, 13 000 and 14 444 beakers. We are doing 1129 beakers right now, which is pretty badass if you ask me. Motor Transport and its pre-reqs will all be around 10k - 11k beakers, so 8 to 10 turns depending on growth by then. So the ToE for these 2 techs plan makes sense.
We are reaching the Dutch core I believe, It would make sense that they lie northeastwards from our mass of armies. I've been sending our strike force in there solely for the gold; once we cleared the immediate two towns, we can bring back a few of the armies.
We are reaching the Dutch core I believe, It would make sense that they lie northeastwards from our mass of armies. I've been sending our strike force in there solely for the gold; once we cleared the immediate two towns, we can bring back a few of the armies.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
And the save which took its time to upload.
ThERat
Deity
I checked the save with mapstat etc and it seems that now all the money has gone from the Dutch to Rome, they have 32k of it 
Since they also have only 15 towns, razing them would give us a lot of cash. Could we send an exploring force of 3 Cav armies north to find Rome?
Since the Dutch now lack money at the moment, I suggest to go after Sumerian core since they do not have rifles, it should be much easier to take towns from them. Once the Dutch regained some cash, fight them again.
The south east looks good and with the land ending east, we can expand north with less armies needed to cover cities. Careful with coastal towns now as the ships will bombard us down.
As for the research, it seems we almost all agree on taking AT/electronic slingshot. We should go for ToE right after RP.
We will surely reach the modern age and also need to net UN as this is the only way we can lose this game.
Looking at the stats, we have 114 scientists, I am sure we can increase that. I suggest proper MM once we get electricity so that RP will be done in less turns. There are now 489 cities visible with Persia still not met (you can see them under communication with other Civs)
Since they also have only 15 towns, razing them would give us a lot of cash. Could we send an exploring force of 3 Cav armies north to find Rome?
Since the Dutch now lack money at the moment, I suggest to go after Sumerian core since they do not have rifles, it should be much easier to take towns from them. Once the Dutch regained some cash, fight them again.
The south east looks good and with the land ending east, we can expand north with less armies needed to cover cities. Careful with coastal towns now as the ships will bombard us down.
As for the research, it seems we almost all agree on taking AT/electronic slingshot. We should go for ToE right after RP.
We will surely reach the modern age and also need to net UN as this is the only way we can lose this game.
Looking at the stats, we have 114 scientists, I am sure we can increase that. I suggest proper MM once we get electricity so that RP will be done in less turns. There are now 489 cities visible with Persia still not met (you can see them under communication with other Civs)
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Hadn't noticed this, so the Rome plan sounds good to me. In my turns the rich guys were Netherlands and Ottomans, so I guess gold will swap between these two, Korea and Rome from one time to another. Given 3 of these 4 are to our NW, it sounds reasonable to commit armies to go on razing parties that way. Some road network-oriented pillage along the way could be worthwhile as well.
Northern Pike
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Sounds good, Beorn. 
This is basically an argument about how many turns are left in the game. Everything you say is correct if your relatively optimistic assumptions on that point are right. But the general opinion seems to be that there's still a long way to go, so the orthodox, methodical approach of building a strong productive base with Hoover and factories before finishing the game with tanks and perhaps MA is the right one.
Unfortunately the rough terrain in the NW would make this very slow, though it might be a good idea anyway.
vmxa said:
This is basically an argument about how many turns are left in the game. Everything you say is correct if your relatively optimistic assumptions on that point are right. But the general opinion seems to be that there's still a long way to go, so the orthodox, methodical approach of building a strong productive base with Hoover and factories before finishing the game with tanks and perhaps MA is the right one.
ThERat said:
Unfortunately the rough terrain in the NW would make this very slow, though it might be a good idea anyway.
Greebley said:
I don't have a problem with your plan, but I do not see any issue with coal plants. You will have rails up and worker gangs to clear it and lose nothing. My point was we do not need to ever research AT/Electronics. We just seem to want to do it. Coal gives us the 50% a lot sooner.
Taking the cheaper tefchs gets us tanks a lot sooner, I don't sweat that they are cheaper.
Going after Rome is an interesting idea. It might be worth a few armies to explore if we have the armies to spare.
Roster:
Greebley
ThERat
Northern Pike
Beorn-eL-Feared -Just Played
markh - Up
Vxma - On Deck
Roster:
Greebley
ThERat
Northern Pike
Beorn-eL-Feared -Just Played
markh - Up
Vxma - On Deck
ThERat
Deity
vmxa, I think this discussion will go on forever. Maybe we are all influenced by our last epic game with the same settings (except that it was continents). The game breaker in turns of fast advance was surely MA armies, they absolutely rock. MA's with their multiple attacks really make things easier.
Tanks are good, but due to their limited speed not that great. Cav armies are still most flexible and fast.
I highly doubt that we can finish this game in less than 100 turns from now. There are still 350 cities to be razed.
I would also like us to go for nationalism/espionage. Spies could net us techs like industrialism and maybe even more. Also, with policemen quite a few cities could be made even more productive. We can make a huge part of the core productive, believe me. Courts, police stations and policemen and we have a core of many cities.
By the way, we should get rid of that 'worker factory city'. It has very little value there and only takes production away from others. freeing that would be better for the core. Once we hit the city limit, we can think of some cities to be abandoned.
Tanks are good, but due to their limited speed not that great. Cav armies are still most flexible and fast.
I highly doubt that we can finish this game in less than 100 turns from now. There are still 350 cities to be razed.
I would also like us to go for nationalism/espionage. Spies could net us techs like industrialism and maybe even more. Also, with policemen quite a few cities could be made even more productive. We can make a huge part of the core productive, believe me. Courts, police stations and policemen and we have a core of many cities.
By the way, we should get rid of that 'worker factory city'. It has very little value there and only takes production away from others. freeing that would be better for the core. Once we hit the city limit, we can think of some cities to be abandoned.
