GR28 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea

[Daeron]

Basing that choice on the amount of civs we meet sounds like a good idea to me. My biggest worry is that at 70 % we're only doing 27 bpt. So, unless necessary I'd prefer going for the GLib straight away. Almarikh could build the SoZ after. By that time the tiles will all be developed there.

Out of curiosity, how many cities do we need for FP on a map this size? Edit: Nvm, I found out. It's 32, so, no need to plan on that for a bit, heheh.

 

[Matt_G]

Out of curiosity, how many cities do we need for FP on a map this size? Edit: Nvm, I found out. It's 32, so, no need to plan on that for a bit, heheh.

lurker's comment: Actually for this scenario the OCN (Optimal City Number) is 28; therefore, you only need 14 cities to build the FP.

 

[Northern Pike]

View attachment 240352, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

550 (0): Holding Ellipi and Nineveh was the right decision, but it's really slowed the momentum of our offensive against the Babylonians. That's always a trade-off.

We cover Ta-Tu's worker, which is subject to Impi attack out of the fog in the way that has damaged us already.

We're about to repeat the blunder of building a worthless-in-despotism mine on one of Almarikh's plains cows. I change that action to a road build.

We change Ulaan and Tabriz to worker builds--painful but necessary. In both cases the lost citizen will be one that couldn't work an improved tile anyway.

We send our settler south for the extra commerce from the river.

Karakorum swordsman --> settler, Tabriz worker --> swordsman.


530 (1): Cutting down redundantly large garrisons, particularly at Nineveh, we get a force of eleven units moving towards Babylonian territory.

Nineveh walls --> barracks, Kazan swordsman --> worker.


510 (2): We locate another miserable-looking Babylonian town, though we can't see the name yet.

We found Mandalgovi on the southern river.

Almarikh swordsman --> swordsman, Ulaan worker --> swordsman.


490 (3): A Persian warrior appears outside Tabriz. The Persians have twelve cities and furs, but no iron or ivory. They're ahead of us by Alphabet-Wheel-CB, that we can see. We declare war.

Three Impis have moved within our borders, so we make some adjustments.

Karakorum settler --> walls, Kazan worker --> swordsman, Dalandzadgad walls --> barracks.


470 (4): Five Impis are on rough terrain within our borders now. We do more tedious blocking work since we have no good attacks.

The frustrated Zulus retreat onto clear tiles.


450 (5): We smite two Impis, though one retreats and requires a second attack (2-0).

We move our modest SoD next to Akkad.

A Bab warrior appears south of Mandalgovi, which may be a clue if we find ourselves looking for the last Bab city.

Tie-Dye Frenzy barracks --> swordsman.


430 (6): Alphabet due in one turn, but we can't cut the science rate.

We storm Akkad, held by a Bowman and two spearmen (5-0). The town auto-razes, so we don't have to decide whether to hold it.

Judging by the cultural radius, the only Bab city we can now see is probably the capital.

We found Choybalsan in the woods ESE of our capital. We have to get started on settling this area.

We attack an Imp outside Almarikh, but it retreats where we can't prudently attack again.

An Imp finally makes a bad attack, against Almarikh, but retreats and survives.

A Bab warrior falls assaulting the walls of Nineveh (6-0).

Alphabet --> Writing, since we're not under serious pressure. Writing is due in sixteen turns and the palace in eighteen, so we may have to slow down the pre-build more than usual.

Karakorum spearman (we're low on blocking and garrison units) --> settler.

Almarikh swordsman --> swordsman.


410 (7): We pick off a redlined Impi, and the attacking swordsman promotes to elite (7-0).

Another Imp foolishly attacks Almarikh, and this one doesn't retreat (8-0). We get another promotion to elite, too.

A Bab Bowman attacks Nineveh and perishes (9-0).

A forest chop near Choybalsan doesn't reveal BG, but brings the town close to completing its barracks.

Tabriz spearman --> spearman.


390 (8): A Sumerian archer appears in the desert NW of Karakorum. The Sumerians have seventeen cities, iron, and wines, but not ivory. They're ahead of us by The Wheel and CB, but not Writing or Math. We declare war.

We repel the attack of another Bowman at Nineveh, and our spearman promotes to elite (10-0).


370 (9): Our attack force gets moving again, after some healing.

We pick off a Persian warrior around Tie-Dye Frenzy and gain our first Great Leader/army (11-0).

A third Bowman expires attacking Nineveh (12-0).

Karakorum settler --> walls, Choybalsan barracks --> walls, Kazan swordsman --> walls, Hovd spearman --> walls.


350 (10): We spot spices in the Babylonian lands, so there's our third luxury.

Four elite victories this round, one defensive, produced one Great Leader.

 

[Northern Pike]

Although we can't see the city yet because of hills, our strike force is now two tiles from what's almost certainly Babylon (at 2 on the screenshot). The force should move N to get adjacent to Babylon, not NW, for protection from counterattacks once we hold the city.

Our army should proceed directly to the Babylonian front, not getting caught up in minor border fighting.

We didn't allow the Babs any Bowman victories this round, so they may not be in their GA yet.

We're still under very little pressure, but now that we have four enemies, things will heat up when the Persians and Sumerians get their units into play.

The screen of three spearmen W of Almarikh isn't strictly necessary, and can be abandoned if the units are needed elsewhere, but it's useful when the Zulus try to infiltrate with Imps.

Our worker force is up to eight natives and two slaves.

Two of our archers have their movement just to avoid the disease risk of fortifying in marshes.

We can wait a little longer to see if our time to Writing falls, but failing that we'll have to cut back shield production in Ta-Tu around the middle of the next round. The pre-build is getting well ahead of our likely time to Literature. After Ta-Tu's worker finishes its present mine it should build roads, but not mines, on some of the unimproved tiles in the area. This will let us reduce shield production without losing gold.

After Almarikh completes its present swordsman it should pre-build the HE with a granary until our army wins a victory and the town can switch to the HE.

Our settler should found our next city at 1 on the screenshot. Choybalsan's worker will be available next turn to provide the necessary road link, and the spearman now in Karakorum can join the garrison.

 

[Northern Pike]

Babylon by bus:

Back at the ranch:

 

[ThERat]

great work NP! Babs should be a non issue and hopefully we can continue to settle and expand. We should us the sword army to find one of our enemies, preferably the Zulus.

 

[CommandoBob]

Arranging Dead Bodies
When we met Babylon they had 6 cities. We captured Ellipi in 850 BC, Nineveh in 710 BC and razed Akkad in 430 BC. The city of Babylon is next, and then we have just two smaller cities to find and deal with.

Spices
How should we handle claiming the Babylonian Spices: city or colony/garrison? Or it is really a factor this early in the game, with Currency (markets) so far away?

MGLs
Once we form our Army and it gets its first victory, we can build the Heroic Epic. When we get three armies we can build the Pentagon. Both are normally built, in AW games, via MGLs. So, what do we want to do with our next MGL?

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

The MGL/HE usually takes care of itself. That is to say, you tend to run into the army cap from city count this early and have a leader that cannot form an army anyway.

 

[Northern Pike]

I see that Vmxa has basically answered the question about how to use our Leaders. I'll just add that the HE and the FP, at 200 shields, can reasonably be hand-built, unlike the Pentagon (400 shields) and armies (impossible until the Military Academy). So we should be planning to use our next three Leaders for army-army-Pentagon.

There is a case to be made for rushing the HE with the second Leader if the player is already getting multiple elite victories per turn. But with the monarch setting depressing the number of enemy units, we're nowhere close to that here.

Spices may be hooked up within the inner radius of a Babylonian city we'll keep, in which case the problem solves itself. If not, we actually don't have pressing need for a third luxury, with monarch-level happiness and almost no cities which can exceed size six before aqueducts. So we probably won't need to expend a settler or even a worker in the short term just to get spices hooked up.

 

[ThERat]

agree with the sequence of army army pentagon. Once we have too many leaders, we can think of HE and the FP eventually.

 

[Daeron]

We're about to repeat the blunder of building a worthless-in-despotism mine on one of Almarikh's plains cows. I change that action to a road build.

Thanks for spotting that mistake. At least I was in good company.

I think we need to have a good idea of what to do with our core by the time we can rush the FP. Except if you're happy with where our capitol is right now.

 

[Northern Pike]

We aren't exactly happy with it, but we never jump the capital in these games and I don't imagine there'll be much interest in doing it this time. As Greebley traditionally points out, on a map this large distance corruption is hardly a factor at all. So eventually the thirty-five or so cities nearest to the capital will be productive for us, even if they're arranged in a long, thin line as though our nation were Chile.

 

[CommandoBob]

I think we need to have a good idea of what to do with our core by the time we can rush the FP. Except if you're happy with where our capitol is right now.

In the AW games I've read up on, I don't recall an instance of the capital being moved. That doesn't mean it hasn't been done; only that I don't remember it being done.

Even back in GR13, with that awful start as Egypt on a world map, I don't think they moved the capital.

Our core cities will not have a lot of infrastructure {which is what I think you are asking about in your first sentence). Aqueducts we will need and markets, too. Libraries and universities and then factories, with the occasional Small Wonder or Great Wonder prebuild. But mostly they will be making units.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

capitol jumps mostly died off in C3C. They were more useful in prior versions as the FP was able to act like a second core. You could get the FP up and then jump the capitol to another continent and have two good centers.

You could accomplish the same with no jump, but the FP could flip in the new land, so a jump was better.

 

[Daeron]

Ahh, makes sense, thanks for the explanation. Chile it is!

 

[Greebley]

I got it

Roster:
Greebley -Up
Commando Bob - On Deck
ThERat
Daeron
Northern Pike - Just Played

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Babylon has 5 cities left including their Capitol. Hit space for the Archers.
Builds look good but slow the Prebuild a bit now rather than waiting.

IBT: Four Persian Archers spotted. The Persians may be just past the Babylons.

330 BC: Science to 50% and break even.
Ignore Persia for now and move next to Babylon.
Army heals.

IBT: Zulu have a Chariot.

310 BC: Capture Babylon losing an Archer and Elite Sword. and build Erdenet. Capture a worker in Babylon. This momentarily solves our money problems and we can go back to 70% science. Start two Settlers. I think we want to get some more cities down quickly before the limit gets reached. 3 Babylon borders are spotted North and West of Babylon.

IBT: FP can now be built. I start it in Ulaan but hope to use it as a Statue of Zeus prebuild.

290 BC: Occupy Babylon. Army will go after other Babylonian cities.

IBT: Babylon settles a new city to the south.

270 BC: Ocean or big lake is south of us. I suspect cities to the south will be 'behind the lines'.

250 BC: Army moves next to Uruk. It is a size 1 Desert town. 3 Persian Archers are near Babylon but no two are stacked. I kill 2 as we end up on hills to help the Swords if attacked back.

230 BC: Kill two Spear in Uruk destroying the city. As surmised a Perisan border is farther west. Also it appears Sumeria has units west as well. Lose Archer to Warrior which we then kill

IBT: Kill attacking Babylon Bowman. Still no Bowmen wins.

210 BC: Army Heals. Lose another Archer to Warrior.
I started the Heroic Epic.

190 BC: Army moves toward Persia.

170 BC: Celts Spotted with 17 cities including Capitol. They have Writing. Declare War. Unfortunately they are south-east. Army takes a LOT of damage fighting a stupid Archer and needs to heal again. Move next to the Babylon city with the Spice.

150 BC: Capture Ashur and we gain Spice. Army Heals. Settle Another town.

Notes:
We have 2 settlers in the spots I was considering Settling. That would put us at 20 cities.

We have fought the Persians and Babylons most heavily, the Zulu have mostly been their UU and only 2 Archers from Sumeria. Sumeria is the only civ with an 'average' military. We are strong to everyone else.

We also now have 3 Lux and can be size 6 with one MP.

I was a bit tired when I played. You may want to check out the builds and such - there may be better ideas.

 

[CommandoBob]

Got it; will have a strategy post up tomorrow evening. Start playing on Wednesday.

 

[Northern Pike]

Settling aggressively was the right call. I agree that our two settlers can found cities where they stand now.

Our next settler might go three tiles NE of Erdenet, if it seems safe, to bring those two BG into play.

Founding two cities next turn will give us twenty, which IIRC will raise the price of the palace to 400 shields. So at that point we'll be able to return Ta-Tu to full-speed production on the GLib pre-build, or nearly.

It's a bit irritating that the three remaining Babylonian cities are in three different directions. We may be able to send a force to the city SE of Ashur soon, but the other two will have to wait. Our army should keep working on Persian cities now that it's committed there, although we have to be very careful since it's operating alone.

We should cover Almarikh's mined cow with a spearman before hitting Enter, or an Impi move onto that tile will leave us with no good options. And we should move the adjacent archer into Almarikh--two Imp attacks on a garrison of one might get lucky.

The spearman on Nineveh's mountain serves no purpose now and can be moved into the town.

I'd also move the spearman from Ashur to within three road tiles of Babylon, which is looking slightly isolated with those Persian archers lurking.

We aren't building many units at the moment, and if it seems necessary you can return Kazan to military production. Having three big builds going at once (palace, HE, FP) is nice, but definitely a luxury.

Two of our nine native workers are on long-term tasks--one clearing jungle, one draining marsh--when ordinary, quicker jobs are undone all over our empire. Really they should be reassigned, but even if we don't do that, we certainly shouldn't commit any others to long tasks.

Since the worker next to Jungly Swamps will be chopping the forest, the town should switch to a barracks build so that we don't overpay for walls, and build walls after that. The risk involved should be small.

Greebley is right that we need a full MM scan. Karakorum and Ta-Tu in particular should be pulling in more commerce.