Gr7 - AWM vs 30 civs on a giant map

Greebley said:
I ended up in a verbose mood so you get the full report. 5 hours for a turn and half.
Be as verbose as you would like. It makes for great reading.
Greebley said:
Preturn: Looks like we are making very good progress. Just as a note, I will comment on things I fix. In a game this size there is much that can be missed due to the scope of the game.
You now get credit for the understatement of the entire game.

Greebley said:
Bugsy,
One thing I noticed is that we had hired taxmen in our capitol and and some other uncorrupt towns. However, in these towns I could put those taxmen to work on ocean squares and get more gold. Be aware of this - you cannot just MM to maximum taxmen or scientists. In uncorrupt towns that have Market/Lib and especially if they have Bank/Uni, you can lower the gold one makes by changing to specialists. In this case I am able to increase or gold a small amount by MMing to work the coast instead. Not that a few gold matters here, but I thought it was something you should be aware of.
I didn't consider this. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Greebley said:
I also notice that Berlin is starving, but is on Civil Engineers. This doesn't work, you don't get the shields because of the order things happen (you starve and get reassigned before the shields). You want taxmen or scientists instead. Not sure if the CE were intentional or just left over.
I was just pissed off that it had flipped. I was going to starve it down, and didn't think about what kind of specialists were there.

Greebley said:
I don't see a Hoover prebuild, so I put Mauch Chunk on it. It is our fastest city by far, being over double of number 2 - it has a coal plant and lots of hills (and if it had been build one more square to the NW it would have had Iron Works as well - we missed by a square). (This is probably why no prebuild. We would have had to started it more than 10 turns ago to be faster.
You are correct.

Greebley said:
One thing that I want to change is to better control the front. For example in the following screen shot, there are large holes in the front lines where the AI can go and is hard to control. Because of the way I play, this is important for me. I will tend to need to defend many squares with an open front and I will end up running out of defenders. So I much prefer a definite front that I can clearly see the enemy, and where he will attack and keep him confined - this can also be done via pillaging roads. To this end, I use some of our cash to rush some settlers (3 I think). Note that because Bugsy got rid of the Netherlands and the continent is starting to Narrow, controlling the front will be a much easier job than it has been.
I think this is sort of like comparing World War I to World War II. When we were defending the choke, we had a narrow front with many enemies and limited in speed. At this point of the game, speed is the key. Look at how rapidly you were able to take out England... great tactics by the way. :thumbsup: Some times that leaves a disorganized front. The flip side is that if the AI reacts aggressively to try and take advantage of the ragged front, it leaves them open to easy kills. Bottom line => our speed is the key right now.

Greebley said:
I notice we have very little Artillery (only 2). I think Artillery really helps for the invasion of the other continent and bombardment. I will therefor build some more. Also several artillery type units are fortified in odd locations like the NE (including one of our two Artillery). It is better to wake such units rather than leaving them asleep at the end of a players round (My guess is that many probably predate Bugsy's turn. Did he know about them? Not sure). [Edit: Found out we got enough Artillery units that it didn't matter if I found them, except I am going to disband some for the shields. We do not need Catapults and perhaps the Trebs. I will have to see first]
I was using the artillery (all types) in defense only. I found them forted all over and I forted some as well. My idea was that if I needed some artillery, I would look around and find some.

Greebley said:
Hmm, I keep spotting other small stacks here and there that are fortified. This includes a big stack of Catapults that I will disband to hurry the settlers I wanted. I will probably use them other places as well. [edit: I did - temples]
I used them for settlers. They are a nice source of five shields.

Greebley said:
We are building a decent number of boats - preparation for an invasion is already well underway. My only change is to increase the number of Galleons vs Frigates. We own 2 frigates for each Galleon and are pretty much only building more frigate. I personally like a set number of frigates and the rest Galleons - so Frigate builds become Galleon builds (and I hope ThERat does too since I suspect I am building them for him for the most part).
I had frigates being built because of the number of enemy frigates patroling the seas.

Greebley said:
I have several more armies to use on the Babylons, but it is late. Or I may go for the small fry - Rome, Germany, first.
At least take out Germany so that Berlin can't flip again.

Great write up Greebley. It is a lot of work I know, but is great for the team.
 
Addenda - agree them being different wars. Also, people can have very different styles and get similar results. I once played a set of turns that for some reason was played by someone else (forget details). We had two very different approaches, but the end results were close to identical. It was very interesting.

In fact my only complaint as such is in black and red below. I only know about this problem because I have been burned badly myself. The part in red comes from a very frustrating personal game I played.

Note also that we got sufficient cash from Babylon that I did some upgrading of our troops - mostly defenders. I would like less bare cities. We haven't seen the Vikings to the best of my knowledge but they do exist. I would like to defend any city that has some improvements (for the corrupt ones, it isn't worth the resources to defend them). Losing a single corrupt city is meaningless.

I don't often play with a helper program, but for this one I really need it. Using Civ Assist 2 especially to find towns about to revolt (though I forgot to check one turn).

1768 AD: Continued.

The Babylonian war
I already have 2 armies next to Tell Wilaya. The Cavalry Army healed last time so it is able to kill the 3 Rifles before running low on HP. The Knight army kills the final Cavalry and the city falls. Again I keep the city as it gives access to the Babylonian core.

GR7_AD1768.jpg


One nice thing about the Babylonians is that they have started railing. This means I have to do less railing myself. In turn this means no long line of Workers to defend. This is good - since we have hit the Maximum city count - making the line of defense is a much more difficult task than in most games.

Since Nippur is a rare distance 2 from Tell Wilaya, I use an MDI army to attack it first to save the longer range units for later cities. I can also use our (now 3) Artillery to bombard the defenders. We only do a point of damage to the defenders. I think I am going to use Lee's favorite trick of speeding Artillery builds with Treb/Cat disbands. We are way short. I will keep the cannon for now. It would have been nice to use Artillery to red-line the defenders, so I could use my Cavalry to take the city. Instead I use a knight army to attack. Killing 2 more defenders. Finally an elite cav kills a Cav defender to capture the city.

Ellipi looks like the next best target. The reason I choose it next is shown below. The red line seems to be the best line of defense. The yellow circles are current gaps I will want to deal with. Once I close those, and capture the two Babylonian cities, our line will be complete. At that point I can free up the defenders in cities behind the line and move them all to the front.

GR7_AD1768a.jpg


Ellipi is distance 3. A Cav and Knight army attack and kill 3 rifles. I try to kill a Cav with two Cavs, but lose both (first did 2 hp, the second did nothing) I fall back on our armies and use a somewhat injured Cav Army to take it out.

[Edit: I also take out Shurrapak in a very similar manner. Just forgot to mention it]

Rome:
I have an army left over. Rather than further attacks on Babylon, I attack Leutia and capture it.

GR7_AD1768b.jpg


For the Babylon front, I do the best I can to plug the holes in our line. In an ordinary game I would have built 3 more towns and made the line solid. The problem is that I didn't want to disband 3 existing towns, so this will have to do.

GR7_AD1768c.jpg


Note that you won't get flips on the first turn after capturing, so if one has plenty of units the best thing to do is to put as many units into a town as there are resistors. Essentially you get a free turn to quell resistance. After that Initial turn, I keep a minimal set of troops in a town to minimize loss on a flip. Fortunately, flips occur after AI movement, so you don't run the risk of a town flipping and the AI troops streaming into your lands. This keeps the flip chances to a minimum and low losses when there is a flip. I could also abandon and replace the towns, but I like the fact that the towns have prebuilt Aquaducts. This means they can freely grow to size 12 and not get stuck like replacement towns would.

In this game, it is hard to put extra units into towns to quell resistance, but I am doing the rest the best I can.

Arabia:

Arabia has 2 landings to deal with. We have 4 Armies stuck on Arabia which is a mistake, IMO. I think we could have invaded equally well if we had had 2 armies of size 4 and 2 armies of size 3.

I don't know who is putting a fourth unit in every Army. Fortunately, we are ahead in tech. If we were playing this at emporer level, it could well have been a mistake that could have cost us the game. In continents, AW you need to be very judicious about adding the fourth unit. Having to wait until transports to use armies on the other continent can be fatal A good rule of thumb is to not add the 4th Cavalry to a Cavalry Army until it is on the final continent. Use more obsolete units of size 4 for home defense. Keep Cav and some Knight armies at size 3. Again it isn't serious this game - it just delays us from attacking for about 20 turns, but it is important to remember for future games.

Celts:
We have an Infantry and Cavalry army up North - the Cav Army is still healing.

I also build some outposts. I like these to keep lands under surveiliance and we can't fill them. The range 3 from mountains is especially useful.

I did update a few more troops to Infantry. We are getting a lot of cash from Babylon and we need Infantry as they will attack and kill muskets and such.

This front line is a lot more complex than most games I play. Time to see if I missed anything. I hit enter.

IBT: A major oversight on my part: We get an attack in the north. There was a row of squares in the fog. Last turn Babylon happened had landed on the fogged square and and moved next to a town. I had forgotten about it. Fortunately it is one of the corrupt towns, so it is more of an embarrasment than a problem. It does show me a weakness I need to watch: No fogged coast anywhere - a landed Cavalry wouldn't have given me the 1 turn warning.

The main front line holds well though. In a few places I used obsolete units to pillage and such and that is what the Babylons go for.

1770 AD:

Babylon:
The game plan for this turn seems pretty straight forward. I want to try to capture the NE babylon cities. This will greatly shorten my front line. The red line in the picture below is what I want achieve.

Most Babylon cities are distance 4. That is less good as we have knight armies that couldn't be used. The best solution I can spot is to Abandon Nippur and build a town one square East of Nippur. That brings Nineveh to within 3.
We can then execute the attacks ->Sippar->Karana in the north, ->Nineveh->Babylon->Uruk, Zarquim in the middle, and ->Nineveh->Ashur in the south. All these attacks would be distance 3, except the attack Karana and Zarquim which are distance 2 and we can use our Artillery.

GR7_AD1770.jpg


But first I want to take back Delft in the north. Looking at our borders there are several coastal squares I cannot see. I will be fixing this issue. I use an Artillery to red-line the defender and take it out with an Elite Cavalry (we destroy some boats). There is a Cavalry next to the city, so I bombard with Cannon and attack with an Elite Infantry

So:
Capture Sippar using Knight Armies. Karana is Bombarded and then Attacked with a Sword Army
I then put workers in Nippur so I can road it, a settler to its East, sell off Improvements, and Abandon.

We Build our new town, Assault Nineveh and capture it using two Cav Armies.

We again have a gap problem (enemy land between our towns), so we need to abandon the new town and build one SE.

GR7_AD1770a.jpg


Assault on Babylon costs us a near full health Knight Army but it is captured. The Babylonians lose their Capitol :hammer:
We have some healing Armies so there are no more assaults. Once again I close all borders using units to block and bombardment.

GR7_AD1770b.jpg


We are moving in on the Celts towns. I am ignoring their units. Some additional units are dropped off. The makings of an Infantry and Cavalry armies of size 3.


IBT: We lose a Pikeman off in the mountains. We get landings in Arabia.

1772 AD: Things continue as planned. Zariqum is Bombarded by Artillery and then we use elites to kill the 1 hp defenders. We do get a leader who will become an army. We then capture Ashur, Akkad, and Mari who are all distance 3 away from our borders.

Babylon now how has Eridu and a bunch of Tundra towns. I will probably not report in much detail on the rest of the battles. Babylon is mostly mop up work of annoying-to-get-to Tundra towns.

GR7_AD1772.jpg


To be Continued...
 
terrific write-up...and great progress, surely there will be nothing left for me to do on our continent except worker action :cool:

We need some armada to sail from our land to several Islands and the main other continent.
 
We may want to get an armada on the east coast to run between Holland and Persia. Persia would be a nice target.
 
1772 AD: Continued.
We got decent money from our last conquests. I decide to upgrade some Cannon and solve the Artillery shortage. Upgrade 23 cannon.

Oh I was giving some thought on the boats. We cannot use armies until we get combustion, so our main assault isn't happening until then. I see no real need for Frigates as we will be able to build Destroyers when we can start the Assault - So I am not going to build more. We have 20 odd which is enough for our current needs I think.

Some of the Babylon towns are now in the interior. I use our old units to suppress restistance so we don't risk Infantry.

We bombard and Sink a boat.

Germany,
I want to eliminate them as mentioned, so I capture one and attack the last. They will be gone next turn

Celts: We attack and capture Lugdunum. The idea behind the capture is to have the Celts throw troops at our Inf armies.
Our one elite unit gets a leader.

IBT: We get our first flip: Karana.

Celts: Mostly waiting to heal.

1774 AD:

Germany: We attack the German city and:

GR7_AD1774.jpg


Our Leader becomes an army before first elite attack.

Celts: Tons of units headed toward the town.We left a way out though and the 2 Cav Armies attack the next to last town on the island.

Babylon:
Our Sword Army finally dies when it is unable to kill a Rifle in Eridu. Eridu is captured without further loss.

Brundism is within Artillery range so I red-line the defenders. I then attack with Elite Cavalry, losing one (fully healthy).

New Nineveh is also captured with a Cavalry Army That is actually a mistake - it was only distance 3 and I should have used the knights (miscounted).

Abandon New Franklin to build a temporary city to get me a needed extra square closer to New Ashur which I capture. This gives me access to Gouda so I can defend it with an infantry and also allows further attacks.

Capture Nina with a Cav Army.

Refining is more expensive than Corp. I have to MM extensively toward science and raise Science to 90% in order to get it in 4 turns.

IBT: Zariqum flips. We lose no units.
The Celts do almost no damage vs the infantry armies.
We get another landing in Arabia and a random Cav attack by Babylon.

1776 AD: Zariqum is range 2 so a good chance for leaders. We don't get any.

Attack along the southern short from west to east.
Capture Zwolle, New Akkad, New Uruk, Tilburg, New Babylon.

This is the entire remaining Babylon Empire.

GR7_AD1776.jpg


IBT: Eridu and Ellipi flip lose a few outdated units and an Infantry.

Take Back lost cities. We have enough gold I upgrade the Spears.
Capture Nimrud, Izibia, Ebla, Adab, Zamua, Eulbar, Carchemesh. On the final one we get a good bit of Cash.

GR7_AD1778.jpg


And Finally:

GR7_AD1778a.jpg


We own our entire continent :woohoo: :woohoo:

I think I will play one more session to 1780 and then hand off the game

To be continued...
 
ThERat,
I quasi-automated some workers using Shift-W which is clear wetlands. The reason I chose that is because they stop when they are done (unlike shift-A). Do you mind if I hand off the game with these workers? They will finish pretty soon (they may even finish next turn)>

I think I will still have some minor projects left but may allow some to work alone. If each takes 6 turns to complete for example, I only have to move 1/6 as many units. Most irrigation or RR is not needed immediately anyway so taking longer is no biggie.

Note that Civ Assist II says we have 577 workers. Even if they take 6 turns, that is nearly 100 workers avail each turn on average.

As a team we may want to discuss using shift A for a proportion of our workers. It may be a bit wasteful if they mine corrupt cities, but we got so many and the cities mostly don't have any urgent needs.
 
clearing wetlands or jungles via automation would be no issue. But automate workers so they start to mine or irrigate is no good IMHO. What if they start to irrigate our productive cities? Or does SHIFT A mean they improve only non improved tiles?

Maybe someone needs to tell me what sort of automation is possible. I rather you forftify all of them near the capital and I can then use them as needed. I guess it's mainly irrigation and RR for more specialists
 
Ya, shift A is only improve existing tiles.

The way I sometimes use it in my games is that I irrigate everything and road everything first and then use shift-A to finish rails, clean pollution (it also builds mines on hills and mountains.). Note that I don't shift-A all my workers. I keep a supply for small tasks fortified.

I won't be using shift-A on my turn. I just feel that shift-A is better than just having our work force do nothing if it comes down to a choice between the two.

However, if ppl don't like any automation we can simply not use it. Note that once everything is finished, the workers go into the cities. At that point I usually wake most of them up and fortify them. I do leave some to clean up pollution as it occurs.
 
you can automate them, it's fine with me. I would also join all native workers now, we don't need them anymore. How many armies do we have that can be sent overseas now?
I would rather start on Persia now. Once we have flight, airfields will speed things up.

My preference for research is combustion -> flight -> MT
 
I need to look at the game, but I believe the number of armies that we can ship is 5. When I took over the game, there was 1 army on the celt island that didn't have 4 units in it. Two armies were on boats, and IIRC, I got 2 leaders.

The good news is that transports are not far away. Steel is cheaper than refining - we can therefore research it in 4 - so we should have transports late in your turn.

I agree with your proposed research path. I too like getting flight for the airfields.
 
Shift-A will only have workers making improvements that haven't been made. clear jungles and wetlands, mine mountains, road and rail, usually irrigate everything. They will not change a mine to irrigation. I say go for the shift-A on our slaves at home.
 
1778 AD: The Jungle Clearance Project finishes.
I kill 8 Celt Spear in their 2nd to last city.

IBT: No landings

1780 AD: Bombard some boats.
I started going through our cities and removing excess food for those that have higher shields. I didn't complete this (probably should have started earlier).
I also started mining farther out. We have some 50% corrupt cities (with courthouse) as totally irrigated. I feel those cities will be more productive if they are making units.

We have goodly cash. 11K or so. I was thinking we could use it mostly to keep research at 100% until tanks.

I divided our boats into the West, North, and East Fleet and labelled them all so players know what they are doing. North BTW would be Celts and Arabia. We will want to get Artillery up to Arabia and Units/armies down - we don't need 4 armies. Feel free to adjust the fleets, though you may want to rename the boat.

ThERat, We have 7 out of 35 armies that can cross the sea. 2 are unfilled (one is at sea). One is a Cav army on our home continent. That was the 3 leaders I got this turn. The other 4 armies are in the Celtic lands - 2 Infantry and 2 Cavalry.

Our culture is 29989 which is over half of the leader, India (at about 57700) We are gaining ground so no danger in the culture dept.

Hoover in 2, Refining in 1.

I did not optimize city production to buid the "right thing" like I normally try to do since we are getting Hoover so soon (they would be off when I went back and mined.)
(i.e. 90+ Infantry, 80-89 Cav, Artillery, 45-79 preference for Infantry, 40-44 Cav, Artillery, 30-39 Infantry, etc.)

I am not completely sure I left every army "woken up" They are mostly in the south finishing up resistance suppression.

The Save

[Edit:
I didn't build any stock exchanges if we want wall St.

Corrupt towns are on Artillery and Settlers after they get a Temple and Aquaduct. This can be changed.

I increased the radius of the mined area. Our current area stopped too soon with cities having 50% corruption (with courthouse) being totally irrigated.

I ran out of worker turns to lower food wastage (I should have started earlier). You may want to continue down the list and get size 12 cities to 0 or 1 food where we can.
 
ok, ready set go....am actually at home today, ready to play some turns now...

Persia, other continent...Flight and tanks...
 
Well done Greebley! Persia looks like a very good target. We have a fairly short crossing ENE from Amsterdam.

We probably also want to use Ireland as a staging base for invading the main continent, heading directly west from there. We need to land as large a force as possible on the main continent. Think June 6, 1944.
 
general information first, so we are all on the right mindset
cities: we have 282 cities, only 3 settlers, but are at the limit at the moment anyway

science: we have 510 scientists

draw a battle plan and cash rush 2 galleons and 4 frigattes in the east to go for Persia next turn

eastern attack route (2 Cav armies)
gr71780a.jpg


the planned attack in the west I (unfortunately no armies yet to support this)
gr71780b.jpg


attack on main continent in the west (3 armies so far)
gr71780c.jpg
 
I wouldn't worry about landing by Jaen yet. I would get as large a force as possible in Ireland for one huge landing right next to that Chinese city.

Might need to develop Ireland as a base. Once bombers come along, we can use it to control the northern West Ocean.

On the east coast, you will eventually want to be running between Amsterdam and Persia since it is shorter. For the first invasion force, sailing from Northeast makes a lot of sense.
 
MM before the first IT took my until now :sad:

you are right about Jaen, lowest priority, but as a bomber base pretty valuable later on

I started the eastern invasion from the north because we have enough cities to rush 7 navy builds. Amsterdam is simply too lonely there, but eventually that will be the shorter crossing, of course
 
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