Helmut Kohl, Chancellor who reunified Germany dies at 87

[Hrothbern]

In memoriam

Helmuth Kohl responded very fast to the fall of the (Berlin) Wall in 1989 and by high-level Global diplomatics, by-passing his own minister of foreign affairs, realised in no time the reuniting of Germany despite many European leaders who were originally opposed to it out of fear of the old powerful Germany.

Helmuth, also called the black giant and "der Macher", did not bother and did what he felt was right.
("Macher" is someone that pulls off anything he takes up)
To counter European fears he forged immediately with the French President Mitterand a closer united Europe which leaded to the treaty of Maastricht and the Euro.

Because he did not want former East-Germany people to be second-class citizens the former East Mark was put directly at the same value of the West Mark.
The consequences of this uneconomical, but principled decision of an historian as Chancellor were to become gruesome for the German economy.
But imo still right.

Total cost of the reuniting have been estimated at 2,000 billion Euro.
(to compare: the bail out sum of Greece is currently 240 billion Euro)

 

[Borachio]

1989. What a year that was! I remember it well.

The Berlin Wall, and Nelson Mandela released (well, pretty much).

Not all good though. Thatcher came to power.

But sure, Kohl. I remember him. Great big fat chap.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Thatcher came to power in 1979.

Out by ten years (one of those annoying - single character typos).

 

[dutchfire]

RIP

 

[Borachio]

Thatcher came to power in 1979.

Out by ten years (one of those annoying - single character typos).

You're right! I don't know why I thought it was 89.

 

[Hrothbern]

Thatcher was PM with the fall of the wall, I remember while she was so fiercely against the re-unification.
With the subsequent EU integration at Maastricht it was already pro-EU John Major

 

[Leoreth]

My favourite Kohl/Thatcher apocrypha: when Germany won the world cup for the third time in 1990, they were regularly talking to discuss the German reunification. Kohl jokingly started the conversation with "How does it feel now that we have beaten you at your national sport for the third time?" Thatcher replied: "I don't know, how did it feel when we beat you at your national sport for the second time?"

 

[Kyriakos]

That german reunification was a bad idea for the Eu is pretty obvious. Moreover it shouldn't have ever happened, regardless of Eu or not. You don't get to reunify after half a century, when ww2 and a huge list of crimes against humanity happened by or due to you. Moreover the erasing of most german debt was another thing which led to the current comedic situation of a Germany which acts as if it is in favour of paying debts; the country which went bankrupt more times than any other of those in the Eu.
Though back in 1989-90 the general view was that Germany is past the old tricks. Without reunification there wouldn't have been an Eu/Euro crisis in the first place, and balance of power would be far more even. Afaik (may be wrong here) old west Germany was more progressive as well than current Germany (?).

 

[Ajidica]

You don't get to reunify after half a century, when ww2 and a huge list of crimes against humanity happened by or due to you.

Errrr, the division of Germany was due to an aberration of Cold War politics intersecting Allied Military Control; not any sort of Allied plan to punish Germany.

 

[Ryika]

Moreover, East Germany was a liability for the longest time. Their infrastructure was basically nonexistent after the Communist Occupation, and West Germany paid them money every year until rather recently just to get them back on track, and will continue to do so until 2019. And the east as a whole is still far from on the same level in terms of development. Without reunion, West Germany would probably have been a much stronger power house.

There are many factors that helped Germany get to the point where we are now, but the reunion likely wasn't one of them. The major one is probably the shared currency with the far less developed industries of southern Europe. That's basically how we cheated our way into being an export powerhouse.

 

[Hrothbern]

Moreover, East Germany was a liability for the longest time. Their infrastructure was basically nonexistent after the Communist Occupation, and West Germany paid them money every year until rather recently just to get them back on track, and will continue to do so until 2019. And the east as a whole is still far from on the same level in terms of development. Without reunion, West Germany would probably have been a much stronger power house.

There are many factors that helped Germany get to the point where we are now, but the reunion likely wasn't one of them. The major one is probably the shared currency with the far less developed industries of southern Europe. That's basically how we cheated our way into being an export powerhouse.

Jip

When the Social Democrat Gerhard Schroeder took over from the CDU Helmuth Kohl (1998-2005) he had to run reforms and a semi-austerity program to pay the re-unification cost and the tackle the high unemployment rate.
When he started Germany had a trade deficit since 10 years and in 2005 it had already grown to a trade surplus of 4%. (under Merkel (2005-...) it doubled over the years)
All in all it was a defensive action to pay the cost, not aimed at supremacy in the EU.
With the old Mark the currency would have become stronger to compensate, but in the Euro, that was not possible, so massive amounts of money started pooring into the financial market at low interest
First into Germany, then into neighbouring countries and then finally also in the South European countries.
What countries do with that money was their own choice.
Invest in the future at state or private secor level, or allow a high national debt at low interest cost, allow money to poor in real estate bubbles, start massive programs for renewable energy, etc.
The 2008 crisis was however devastating for those countries that used that money for growing a high national debt.

Germany did contribute substantially to generating that pool of cheap money, also because they kept in semi-austeric mode started by Gerhard Schroeder,
but @Kyriakos , is that to blame to Germany ?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Imagine you are a senior citizen of the German Democratic Republic, receiving your state pension in "Ost-Mark", the currency of the GDR. And from one day to the next, you receive the exact same amount, but in D-Mark, the currency of West Germany. That is what, among other things, the 1-1 conversion rate meant.
Of course you are gonna love Kohl and his party.

 

[Takhisis]

You don't get to reunify after half a century, when ww2 and a huge list of crimes against humanity happened by or due to you.

I hadn't realised that the Dekemvriana had been the work of the NSDAP.

 

[Kyriakos]

I hadn't realised that the Dekemvriana had been the work of the NSDAP.

Take a trip aboard the Goeben.

 

[FriendlyFire]

My favourite Kohl/Thatcher apocrypha: when Germany won the world cup for the third time in 1990, they were regularly talking to discuss the German reunification. Kohl jokingly started the conversation with "How does it feel now that we have beaten you at your national sport for the third time?" Thatcher replied: "I don't know, how did it feel when we beat you at your national sport for the second time?"

The Uk beat Germany in the Genocide game ?
Iam not sure that is something to be bragging about.

The problems will start once the ww2 generation passes away
Hopefully this new Germany will be satisfied with its european conquests

 

[yung.carl.jung]

That german reunification was a bad idea for the Eu is pretty obvious. Moreover it shouldn't have ever happened, regardless of Eu or not. You don't get to reunify after half a century, when ww2 and a huge list of crimes against humanity happened by or due to you. Moreover the erasing of most german debt was another thing which led to the current comedic situation of a Germany which acts as if it is in favour of paying debts; the country which went bankrupt more times than any other of those in the Eu.
Though back in 1989-90 the general view was that Germany is past the old tricks. Without reunification there wouldn't have been an Eu/Euro crisis in the first place, and balance of power would be far more even. Afaik (may be wrong here) old west Germany was more progressive as well than current Germany (?).

People were being tortured by the ruthless GDR security apparatus. The GDR was looking towards a complete economic collapse, maybe even a humanitarian crisis. But saying things like "it should have never happened" is kind of senseless either way, since it happened when it happened completely by accident. It was brought forth by a misinformed press conference and millions of rebelling citiziens. It wasn't a calm, planned, political decision.

I would not say "Old West Germany" was that progressive at all. Until the '70s homosexuality was considered a criminal offense. The police kept a "pink file" well into the late '80s in which homosexuals were recorded, they were also occasionally put under surveillance.

If you look at CDU/CSU advertisement from the '70s/'80s it uses the same images and rhetoric that the nazi party NPD uses now. They're no different. Ironic, because the CSU/CDU was onboard with letting in thousands of immigrants for cheap labour. Germany was a rather xenophobic society, maybe the west more than the east. Now that has changed, I would argue that eastern Germany, due to a lack of exposure and a million other factors, is nowadays more xenophobic.

But all in all, no. "Old West Germany" wasn't more progressive than Germany now.

 

[Leoreth]

The Uk beat Germany in the Genocide game ?
Iam not sure that is something to be bragging about.

The problems will start once the ww2 generation passes away
Hopefully this new Germany will be satisfied with its european conquests

how do i negative like a post

 

[warpus]

Kohl was the chancellor when I lived there. RIP

 

[Takhisis]

Ironic, because the CSU/CDU was onboard with letting in thousands of immigrants for cheap labour.

Gastarbeiter or the regular immigrants?

 

[Commodore]

Don't know much about the whole German reunification process. What exactly was Kohl's role in the reunification? Was it something that happened because he was the one who pushed for it?