Ferocitus
Deity
Just another fad. Like Western protests against China asserting control of HK.
General News Regarding China & Hong Kong
- Thread starter Commodore
- Start date
Just another fad. Like Western protests against China asserting control of HK.
Calling any that is currently #1 a "fad" is a near-meaningless claim, since obviously, anything that's currently #1 is not going to be in that state forever.
Don’t like BLM? Neither does Hong Kong.
https://coconuts.co/hongkong/features/the-world-has-marched-for-black-lives-why-hasnt-hong-kong/
“On Twitter, many who were planning on attending the march expressed frustration that organizers were being evasive in not sharing their communication with the police, and were dismissive of their questions about safety.
“The organizers responded poorly to valid concerns. now trying to paint a narrative as if they were victimized,” one user said.
Some tweeted that the organizers of the march, as expatriates, were ignorant and did not understand the city’s political complexities or that police had effectively awarded them “expat privilege” by informally green-lighting their march.”
Except if you know what Hong Kongers think of US politics you realize this is just a dogwhistle:
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/06/09/hong-kongs-far-right-us-politicians-crush-black-lives-matter/
“Examples of this have surfaced on Twitter, with vocal supporters of the Hong Kong protests claiming that the Communist Party of China is behind Black Lives Matter, comparing Black protesters to gorillas, and claiming that the “real America” consists of Black people who are looters and white people who clean up after them.
Racist and nativist undercurrentshave been present throughout the Hong Kong protests. Although this has primarily been directed towards mainland Chinese, anti-Black racism has also previously erupted during the protests.”
Don’t believe non-US state media? Here’s the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tivists-uneasy-relationship-with-donald-trump
“A protester in her mid-20s, who asked to be referred to as M, said many Hong Kong protesters knew of and disagreed with the US president’s domestic policies but some were reluctant to criticise him.
“They know to some level that they are being used – but after years of silence, any support from an American president feels like success,” M said.”
Even people writing into the SCMP see it:
https://www.scmp.com/comment/letter...ts-do-black-lives-matter-hong-kong-protesters
Thankfully the American propaganda machine pays its loyal followers well:
https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-r...re-nothing-like-chinas-crackdown-in-hong-kong
https://coconuts.co/hongkong/features/the-world-has-marched-for-black-lives-why-hasnt-hong-kong/
“On Twitter, many who were planning on attending the march expressed frustration that organizers were being evasive in not sharing their communication with the police, and were dismissive of their questions about safety.
“The organizers responded poorly to valid concerns. now trying to paint a narrative as if they were victimized,” one user said.
Some tweeted that the organizers of the march, as expatriates, were ignorant and did not understand the city’s political complexities or that police had effectively awarded them “expat privilege” by informally green-lighting their march.”
Except if you know what Hong Kongers think of US politics you realize this is just a dogwhistle:
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/06/09/hong-kongs-far-right-us-politicians-crush-black-lives-matter/
“Examples of this have surfaced on Twitter, with vocal supporters of the Hong Kong protests claiming that the Communist Party of China is behind Black Lives Matter, comparing Black protesters to gorillas, and claiming that the “real America” consists of Black people who are looters and white people who clean up after them.
Racist and nativist undercurrentshave been present throughout the Hong Kong protests. Although this has primarily been directed towards mainland Chinese, anti-Black racism has also previously erupted during the protests.”
Don’t believe non-US state media? Here’s the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tivists-uneasy-relationship-with-donald-trump
“A protester in her mid-20s, who asked to be referred to as M, said many Hong Kong protesters knew of and disagreed with the US president’s domestic policies but some were reluctant to criticise him.
“They know to some level that they are being used – but after years of silence, any support from an American president feels like success,” M said.”
Even people writing into the SCMP see it:
https://www.scmp.com/comment/letter...ts-do-black-lives-matter-hong-kong-protesters
Thankfully the American propaganda machine pays its loyal followers well:
https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-r...re-nothing-like-chinas-crackdown-in-hong-kong
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
It absolutely would not have occurred to me that people in Hong Kong would demonstrate on behalf of Black Lives Matter until seeing this post.
I wonder if the Belt and Road Initiative keeps Africa on the radar of Chinese liberals?
aelf
Ashen One
Chinese-majority societies tend to be pretty racist still, whether in HK, China or elsewhere. It doesn't really say much about the HK protesters in particular.
Hong Kong people have it better off than Black Americans.
Korea and Japan both had BLM protests. They’re not Chinese, sure. Still doesn’t seem like a big ask. In June there was an anti-Black fervor that got whipped up in the mainland which Beijing cracked down instantly. In Hong Kong we just have a bunch of particularists waving American flags and praising Trump.
It’s just kind of funny to reflect on how hollow international solidarity really is sometimes. You say you want freedom, a foreign oppressive government agrees with you, and now imperialist intrigues have obliterated any possibility of solidarity. Funny how it happens over and over and over again across history.
Black Lives Matter: we would appreciate healthcare, food, housing, and not being murdered by the state’s paid lynching patrols.
Free Hong Kong: we don’t want reactionary terrorists who set people on fire to be extradited to China
Black Lives Matter: perhaps we are not so different?
Free Hong Kong: screw off, monkey.
Free Hong Kong: we don’t want reactionary terrorists who set people on fire to be extradited to China
Black Lives Matter: perhaps we are not so different?
Free Hong Kong: screw off, monkey.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Why does that imply that people in Hong Kong would demonstrate on behalf of Black Lives Matter? Most white Americans probably have it better than most Hong Kongese people, but there were not mass demonstrations on behalf of the Hong Kongese, and that absence was not assumed to require any special explanation, because nobody would have expected it.
Those are a few of the groups in question who did the Chile-->Prague -->Cuba route and then returned to just rob banks and kill random people in the name of their revolution.
As well as the Argentine Communist Party and the Soviet Union explicitly approving of and supporting the aforementioned 1976 coup.
I know that Stalin's policies were denounced in the not-so-secret speech by Khrushchiov. But now they're being de facto rehabilitated, sadly. Sadly for the Russian people, because it will mean oppression from their government.red_elk said:
Unlike innonimatu I think you are arguing with some degree of honesty, so I'll answer this: yes, I do think that people here (not the US) suffer of Stockholm syndrome with regard to the US, but not because of 19th-century actions but because of the ongoing depredations of the US here. It's not just the constant insults and racism by Donald Trump, it's, as I've alredy said, the imposition of unequal treaties and support for various kleptocracies -some civilian, some military, some mixed-, outright extortion and reneging on deals, as well as actual miltiary intervention e.g. Granada or the invasion of Mexico.
Historically here we got the Spanish and Portuguese, then the UK and French, then the US looting the subcontinent for its natural resources and then using the proceeds to increase their profits by lending money to the local governments so that they could buy second-hand war materiel at inflated prices with which to kill each other off. Now China is doing both.
Some people like to use the U.S. of A. as a self-justifying boogeyman: ‘They are bad, so we're bad too, and that makes us even, nobody can complain.’
I hold a different line: I complain about both, because both are bad.
I have to answer to the guy who supports Donald Trump and defends Confederate statues yet again…
And also the guy who likes to go on about imperialism and supports the British presence in the Falklands…
1) Nazis? Here? Yeah, if you mean the actual Peronist movement which you shamelessly support, which specifically included runaway Nazis like Eichmann and Priebke, or Ustashe like Ante Pavelić.
Which I keep having to post because you simply ignore.
2) As for wars of aggression, yes, of course there is the attempted reconquest of Finland. And half a century of occupation of the Baltic countries. And Poland. And Bessarabia, still separated from Romania after WWII. And the imposition of dictatorships all over the place in the name of liberation. The Soviets left Armenia and Georgia to be massacred by the Turks in the Caucasus, but who cares, you'll probably point out that the British did the same to the Assyrians so that makes it even, except for the victims who, as they are dead, cannot complain.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Armenia wasn't occupied by the Soviet Union until December 1920; the territorial cessations made to the Turks had already been agreed by the republican government in Armenia, the new Bolshevik government essentially just upheld the existing agreement. You might argue that the Soviets should have invaded Turkey to redeem Armenia's territorial claims, but wouldn't that just be another count of imposing dictatorship in the name of liberation to lay at their feet?
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Yes, that is my point: international solidarity from particularist bourgeois protest movements is a joke.
At least the working Americans have demonstrated for Hong Kong.
By whom?
Neither war nor occupation. You could just as well call Karelia or Siberia occupied territories.
"Military occupation is a type of effective control of a certain power over a territory which is not under the formal sovereignty of that entity, without the volition of the actual sovereign, and provisional in nature."
Poland grabbing the same land 20 years before wasn't war of aggression in your book? Just wondering.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Is the point of demonstrations to express solidarity, or to affect political change? What would Hong Kongese demonstrating on behalf of Black Lives Matter actually do for black Americans?
It's an expression of solidarity. Anyone watching Hong Kong will be reminded that BLM is convincing people, and then sowing the seeds of dissonance in their own reticence. I also wouldn't expect Hong Kongites to demonstrate regarding BLM, since they're worried about their own situation.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Even that indirect impact is pretty speculative. There are a lot of ways an American viewer could respond to the image of people in Hong Kong demonstrating on behalf lives Black Lives Matter, and most of them are some flavour of indifference. It's really more of a statement about how progressives think people should behave than how they actually behave in practice.
I agree that it is speculative. In my experience, demonstration does very little. On average. Once in awhile demonstrations have a pretty significant impact and there's no way to tell ahead of time
Sabotage their wealthy US state department financiers, probably.
You’re right peaceful demonstrations about distant injustice is usually pointless. In truth I expect nothing from them except to continue being a useful puppet for western bourgeoisie and their imperialist intrigues.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
If you don't think that Hong Kongese demonstrating on behalf of Black Lives Matter is important, then why use that topic to insinuate that the Hong Kongese are racist, that they are loyal to Donald Trump, and that they are tools of the US State Department? Is this all just an excuse to voice some latent Sinophobia, or did you intend there to be some sort of point underlying your invective?
Could you have meant effect rather than affect?
