HOT1 - PTW Monarch (Koreans)

[hotrod0823]

Persia Attackes us , the bombardment wrinkle will require us to do a few things to take the war to them. We need a couple frigites to aid in bombing their coastal cities. If we get Magellen's attacking Persia will not be as tough, there GL is done with Magnetism so their extra ship movement will be no longer possible.

Borealis well done spotting trouble from Persia losing a coastal city because we failed to get defenders there could've given Persia a head start against us. I realize they wouldn't have held the city long but a loss of a cities is still not good . Don't think Democracy is in the cards for us right now, did you try to sell PP to the rest, if not I will see what the rest will give us for it. Another thing : did losing the HG cause us to turn up the lux or is our luxuries able to make everyone still happy. I just wonder how long we can hold out before the WW kicks in it was no time at all when we were at war with Japan.

Hotrod (got it ) <---- currently playing
Rowain (on Deck)
UU
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis

I will check to see if anyone has any other comments before I play tonight.

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Liz sells me Printing Press for 225 gold

for what ? why? what did you want PP for? and why spending it to the biggest AI there?

Please don't buy unnecessary techs and especially not from our biggest Opponent. This spending will allow England to increase its Science and so they will close the gap sooner now.

We don't need any Democracy. At our size we have a very good chance to draw at least 7 turns of Anarchy to switch to a nearly useless Goverment from which we would need to revolt again when some stupid AI declares War on us.



Anyway good job at defending our Cities

Rowain

 

[hotrod0823]

The only benifit of getting the PP is to sell it as far as I can tell. Not sure if Borealis bought it for that reason or not. If we haven't sold it yet I will try to get all I can for it. I agree Democracy is out of the question.

Hotrod

 

[Rowain deWolf]

@Hotrod:

WW comes with losses and when you are the Agressor. When the AI declares War the people are more happy in the beginning of the War. If we don't lose many Units and if we don't lose any Cities WW would take a long time to kick in.

Anyway I would suggest taking peace now and wait for Bombers and Tanks to teach them a lesson.

Rowain

 

[hotrod0823]

I doubt we will get anything for peace right away. I will have to check out the state of our army and see if I can do anything at all on the offensive. I don't think I will be able to and peace will most likely be the best option.

Hotrod

 

[Unique Unit]

It does sound as though peace with honor, but not necessarily with tribute, would be best for us. We can repay Xerxes for his impudence later -- when we are done industrializing, and when we have many more types of bombardment units at our disposal. Prolonging this war at this point in time sounds fruitless. We are not yet in position to wrest serious territory from Persia. And more to the point, we want to concentrate on preparations for the coming Sino-Korean conflict. Coping with war weariness might slow those preparations.

 

[Borealis]

I know buying PP was a bad move, as I stated later on- we might have managed to get it from Xerxes later. My apologies for the . The only benefit is that Liz is now polite and probably unlikely to ally with Xerxes against us.

Also, how long do we have before our lux deals run out? Most of them, as I remember, are with Mao, who is Furious with us...

The main problem with Persia is that Xerxes doesn't have much to give us for peace. It might be worth getting, in any case, when we go to war with Mao to avoid double WW, but as it's going he can't take any of our cities. If we decide to take the war to him, we'll need a navy, which Magellan's will help with- but we should have most of the resources in the game by now with the sheer amount of good land we own. Also, the AI is not that far away from the Industrial Age, which means Persian rifles by the time we get there- we could handle it, but we're probably better off saving those units for Mao.

 

[hotrod0823]

Only played 9 to even out the turns to 1350 AD

Hot 1 from 1305 -

1305 AD (0): Scoping out the situation and decide to focus on Factories in the core cities and culture on our boarders. Change P'yongyang from Cathedral to Factory. Change Taejon to factory. Change Hyansan to factory. Change Pyongsong to bank. Change Delhi to courthouse. Hurry temple at Tokch'on for 100 gold. Hurry temple at Ch'ongfu for 172 gold. MM Ulsan to get Cop's in 3 instead of 4. Offer X-man peace and we get his 39 gold. Being that I just made peace with Persia why not prepare to finally take out Japan, move our units to take Japan in 3 turns after the peace runs out.

1310 AD (1): Tokch'on builds temple starts courthouse. Ch'ongfu builds temple starts courthouse.

1315 AD (2): Tabriz completes marketplace start unversity. Working on the railroad. Medicine due next turn.

1320 AD (3): Learn Medicine start electricity. Ulsan builds Cop's starts Newton's due in 20. China Cascades to Magellan's . So do the Persians. Declare on Japan.

1325 AD (4): Kyoto understanably riots, Kazan builds cathedral starts factory. Pyongsong builds bank starts factory. Karachi builds courthouse starts temple. Take the 2 spears out at Nagoya and produce a leader , sending him home, don't know what to rush but will decide soon.

1330 AD (5): X-man wants a MPP, ROP and 1 gpt. Not right now sorry . Madras builds bank starts worker. Ulaanbaatar builds courthouse starts university. Kaesong builds university starts Rifleman. Move Hwach'a in position to attack the last Japanese city next turn. Leader is heading to the core cities.

1335 AD (6): Easily take the Japan capital. England looks threatening on the other continent. Hurry walls at To-hold. Not sure what to think about that . Will rush Newton's next turn, that will free Ulsan to get another wonder later and will kill the cascade after Magellen's completes at Seoul in 6 turns.

IBTW: England declares after spending last turn within our boarders, 3 knights attack and retreat. We lose our wines .

1340 AD (7): Madras builds worker starts rifle. Wonsan courthouse starts rifle. I decide to hurry Newtons in Ulsan. Walls complete at To'Hold, start barracks again. Trade China ToG for Democracy, 38 gpt, 90 gold and WM. Trade X-Man ToG and dyes for silks. Up Research to 100% to get Electricty next turn -94 gold.

IBTW: After a valiant fight the musket and Rifle at To'Hold fall to the English . They will pay for that soon enough.

1345 AD (8): Learn Electricity start Scientific Method Due in 4 at 70% and +107 gold . Newton's completes start factory. Rush Factories at Pyongyang and Hysangsan for 300 total.

1350 AD (9): P'yongyang build factory starts rifle. Hysangson builds factory starts rifle. Paegum builds factory starts cavalry. Trade Persia Gems for 12 gpt, and 40 gold. Scinetific method in due in 3 at 60% and +209gpt.

Decide to end here to even up the turns. The rail net is started but not with any real focus, just started building towards the core. Japan is no more, china has accitive cavalry and riders but none entered our lands. Persia is now Annoyed but willing to pay for trades, so is China for that matter. England really wanted that lone city and sent everything to get it, about 15 knights and MI. We are soo far ahead in tech we can get all the Wonders Easily. Took Newtons with the leader because Magellen's is in the bag with 3 turns remaining, Sufferage is started but not critical and completing Newtons and Cop's in the same city of Ulsan makes that city a science powerhouse at 76 beaker at 60%. It will also free that city up for Hoover or ToE.

Good luck to Rowain.

Here is the Save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/hot1_1350_ad.zip



Hotrod
Rowain <---- up now
UU (on Deck)
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis

 

[Unique Unit]

Outstanding turn, Hotrod! The Japanese are no more! Our civilization is already dominant, and positioned for whatever path we choose to take. If this were a solo game, my attention would already be starting to drift.
Looking back over our history, I'm trying to decide when and where, exactly, we surged past rival AI civs. As recently as our previous war with Japan, China seemed like a serious contender. Now they exist at our sufferance, awaiting almost certain conquest.

 

[hotrod0823]

It was strange. I was looking over our existing deals (love the new detail screen) and noticed that Peace was up with Japan in 3 turns and I had an idle stack ready to strike. Taking the last 2 cities with zero loses, spears don't hold up well to cavs and Hwach'a . I was a bit taken a back by Englands aggressive move on our lone city on the other continent but not really surprised. We still are not ready to move on the other land mass. We need ships, ironclads and many more troops !!!

China on the other hand will be a tought nut to crack but with our railnet started, not even close to anything usable yet, moving on China will be swift. We have such a tech lead that we can sell our obosolete techs to Persia or China at 2nd civ prices and uses that money to fund our research. We are already at 4 turns per tech with a large gold per turn income. Meldor was not kidding when he said we can get all the wonders without prebuilds. The AI is that far behind . I rushed Newton's with the leader, traded ToG for 2nd civ gold to China. After Magellen's completes the cascade is dead, no other civ is anywhere close to getting to Industrialization.

The question is do we take it to England, or make peace soonish and build up to take the continent, or peacefully build our space ship and launch.

 

[Mystery13]

Based on our variant, we almost have to make peace with England and attack China. China has been pissed with us for years. I could see us boating a huge stack of troops and artillery over to England only to have Mao declare on us! The "speed" of
artillery based warfare forces our hand here.

 

[meldor]

Space launch would be unusual for an SG, most end in Dom or for those against the wall diplo.

 

[hotrod0823]

I think making peace with England even if we have to give up some tech may be the best bet. We WILL have to fight China one way or another, not to win by domination, we would need more then their territory for that but because Mao will eventually grow tired of sitting around and will attack us, he is still furious and has been since the dark ages.

I think England just saw a weak city and took it, enmass. Bringing war to england is huge undertaking. I say make peace, build up for war with China and persue a space victory. It may be in our best interest to pull the AI up to the MId Industrial age to "help" our space race. It isn't necessary but may speed up our launch.

Lets go for space - as Meldor said it is a rare occurence and from the looks of things shouldn't be too far in our future.

Hotrod

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Got it

Rowain

 

[hotrod0823]

@UU : From the looks of things we really took off after the Great Library ended ~900 AD, we were able to conserve so much cash that cash rushing libraries was very easy and gave us a head start on all tech from that point on. A few well timed leaders and an excellent timed Golden Age and we were off and running. We were at parity after the GL was up but way ahead in cash. These civ traits really have payed off, literally. I checked back and saw that virtually every turn we have cashed rushed something, that I think has been the difference. Not to mention the excellent skill everyone has shown in taking the military actions necessary to sieze territory, first India, then Mongols, then Japan, next China. I think our very balanced approach to war, peace, miltary buildup and infrastructure building has "catapulted" us past the AI to a point where we can run the game anyway we choose from here on out.

Hotrod

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Space it shall be;

1350AD (IT): Cancel the Lux deal with Mao and sell hiom Medicine for all he can pay (111 gpt); Then I sell him Dyes for Alliance vs England.

Throughout my turns I build Workers, Rifles and Infrastructure. I rushed Factory and (via Worker) a CoalPlant in Ulsan and started ToE there;

We got Magellan and China via cascade Shakespeare;

Later I sold Games to Mao for Free Artistery, Medicine to X-Man for 90 gpt; Persia got Steam as their free tech and not Nationalism;

We learned Sanitation after SciMeth and started Rep Parts then;

In two turns we will know where the Rubber is and have then time enough to learn Corporation with StockMarkets and Wall Street( 4turns at our current tech rate); ToE is due in 8 (=2 turns at 0 science and ~500 gpt) Suffrage in 14;

Neither China nor Persia have Industrial or Electricity now;

At the end a english Caravel and a Galleon showed up near Pusan Isent some Units there and moved to the High ground;

and The Game

Comments + Thoughts:: I allied with China because we don't need their landsd (except when they get a Resource we need for our ship) and I like it when the AI 's are at war with each other ( no deals between them). With Artillery and Infantry we can make our land immune against any AI-attack;

Please after Atomic-Electronics start to learn Radio and Steel before Refining; The longer Oil is connected the sooner it will move. Radio will give us Civil Defense and Radar-Towers. We have this Game in the bag. In approximatly 100 turns our Ship will fly and leave those little AI back.


Good Luck UU

Rowain

PS: My first PtW game was with Korea and Space-win and Monarch. the random map turned out to give me an Island alone and I fought just 5 turns of War in the whole Game (Spain got crazy and landed some MDI next my tanks ) and didn't ever attack a City

 

[hotrod0823]

Very nice ! I like pulling china into war with England it will keep them both occupied . Are we going to take Shakespeare's too ?? Just because we can??

Other thoughts: We can continue to sell our tech to Persia and China and use their gold to support our research all the while allowing them (England and China) duke it out on the high seas while we pursue our agenda to fly into space . Any opportunity to get Persia into the war against England??

Hotrod
Rowain
UU <----- up now
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis

 

[Unique Unit]

Got it.

Interesting idea, allying with China (rather than simply taking our continent). I'll stay with it -- should be fun play a strategy I wouldn't have tried if this were a solo game.

 

[Rowain deWolf]

@ Hotrod: China cascaded from Magellan and finished Shakespeare 4 turns later.

Persia would have been willing to declare vs England but I feared that they are too weak and would be easy prey for them but perhaps it is better as it would decrease Englands trade-possibilities. I tried for an Embargo but got 'They would never accept such a deal'

Rowain

 

[hotrod0823]

No great loss, shakespeare is a good wonder if we were looking for culture, not much else.

On bringing Persia into the war you make a good point. It is better to keep them stronger and use them to help our cash flow. It they are at war England may wipe them out too easily.

Hotrod