How did Poland impact development in the Orient?

[Crezth]

I heard it recommended once as I was gallivanting about my university's campus that Poland was not quite so influential as the base allele. With a scoff I had to inquire as to where exactly this notion came from, and the person remarked that Poland in fact had very little to do with the history of China and the surrounding terrains.

Needless to say, I was taken aback, and immediately sought a response but none could be found. I'm afraid this is a dead-end for me, even as I know deep within me that Poland is downright inextricable so far as the entire existence of the West is concerned (Battle of Vienna, anyone? I rest my case). But on closer inspection it appears there weren't very many Poles in ancient China.

Am I wrong here? Someone please explain to me how Poland inexorably altered the course of Oriental civilization. Thanks!

 

[Ajidica]

I'm going to go with the following response:
"mumble...mumble...mumble...ZHENG HE!...mumble...mumble...WINGED HUSSARS!...mumble...mumble..."

 

[Antilogic]

Troll thread is trollworthy.

But I heard that Marco Polo was actually born in Poland with the birth name Mzarszkus Pzolowczuski and adopted the more readable Italian moniker after his travels to the Orient. Nobody could pronounce his name and they didn't want to buy his book.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Poland was the Orient of Europe.

 

[Domen]

But I heard that Marco Polo was actually born in Poland

Benedict Polak, rather than Marco Polo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_of_Poland

And yeah - he actually visited China before Marco Polo (if Marco Polo even visited China - because there are some doubts about it, it is possible that he simply read accounts of other, previous travelers - including Benedict and Giovanni - and then just made up entire story of his journey*):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_of_Poland

Benedict of Poland (Latin: Benedictus Polonus, Polish Benedykt Polak) (ca. 1200 – ca. 1280) was a Polish Franciscan friar, traveler, explorer, and interpreter.

He accompanied Giovanni da Pian del Carpine in his journey as delegate of Pope Innocent IV to the Great Khan Güyük of the Mongol Empire in 1245-1247. He was the author of the brief chronicle De Itinere Fratrum Minorum ad Tartaros (On the travel of Franciscan friars to the Tatars), published only in the 1839 in France (and a year later in Poland) and a longer work Historia Tartarorum (The history of the Tatars), discovered and published only in 1965 by the academics of Yale University.[1] This journey preceded that of Marco Polo.

The report of Benedict is important because it includes a copy of the letter of the Great Khan to the Pope.[2]

History

Little is known about the life of Friar Benedict beyond the story of the journey. He was educated and spoke and wrote Latin. He had become a monk in the Franciscan monastery in Wroclaw about 1236. This was the first major stop of Friar Giovanni after leaving on the mission from Lyon in April 1245. Benedict was chosen to accompany him as an interpreter because he had also acquired a knowledge of the Old East Slavic language and the first part of their journey was to Kiev. Benedict made his accounts of the journey during and after their return in 1247. After returnig from the voyage he probably settled in the Franciscan monastery in Kraków where he spent rest of his life. Later he was also a witness at the canonization of Saint Stanislaus of Szczepanów in 1252.

*Marco Polo's account is rather "coloured" / embellished in some parts - it more resembles a fictional story than a real diary of a real journey.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Well, being a part of the Dar-al-Islam in North Africa, I assume Poland's trade links with its various brother states in the Indian Ocean had some sort of meaningful impact on Chinese commerce.

 

[Domen]

Well, being a part of the Dar-al-Islam in North Africa, I assume Poland's trade links with its various brother states in the Indian Ocean had some sort of meaningful impact on Chinese commerce.

Song of the Polish Revolution (note the clearly Anti-Semitic statement about Jews persecuting North Africans aka Arabs*):


Link to video.

===========================================

*This statement is inherently wrong, pro-Palestinian propaganda, because Jews have never been the perpetrators - they were always the victims.

All other nations included both victims and perpetrators throughout history (for example Poles commited crimes in Russia in 1610, etc.) - only not Jews.

And Jewish Nazi Collaborators (aka Ghetto Police and similar groups, who murdered other Jews in WW2) were of course ethnic Poles pretending to be Jews.

All nations included both scums, normal people and heroes - but the Israelites included only heroes.

===================================

Such a quotation:

"When history is described, scums should be shown as scums, aggressors as aggresors and crimes as crimes - no exceptions. Nothing must be hidden, every country / nation must acknowledge all of their guilts and wrongdoings - and each of them have such."

- my uncle

 

[Masada]

Marco Polo even visited China - because there are some doubts about it, it is possible that he simply read accounts of other, previous travelers - including Benedict and Giovanni - and then just made up entire story of his journey

There's little scholarly doubt, from where I sit, that he did. While the claim that he might have "stolen" his information from other sources is semi-plausible for China, the same isn't true when he talks about his return trip through Southeast Asia. So far as I'm aware Marco Polo is the only European source we have for the period. Marco Polo is also usually accounted to be quite reliable, even if he doesn't include all that much 'useful' (i.e. political/economical) information.

Marco Polo's account is rather "coloured" / embellished in some parts - it more resembles a fictional story than a real diary of a real journey

It isn't a diary though. Marco dictated it to Rustichello da Pisa while both were in a Genoese prison. We suspect Rustichello embellished it because Marco claimed he did. But if read with care, the information it provides is still valuable. It's not much different to a lot of European accounts in that respect. The audience didn't want a true and accurate account of events, they just wanted something interesting to read. The better travelogues of the period weaved interesting anecdotes into a broader (more useful to us) narrative. The Travels kind of reads to me like Ammianus Marcellinus with his anecdotes about palm reproduction.

 

[Lord Baal]

Marco Polo certainly embellished his book - or had it embellished for him against his wishes - but that hardly discounts the value of the book as a whole. Who cares if he governed a city - he clearly didn't - compared to the other knowledge he brought back? Ask anyone who goes overseas today and they'll tell all sorts of embellishments. Do we really expect a Medieval Italian merchant rotting in prison to be otherwise. Hell, if I went overseas, I'd lie about it. "Dude, I'm tellin' ya, the chicks in Hawaii totally have three breasts! Yeah, just like that horrible movie with Colin Farrell, and that much better one with Arnie!"

 

[TheLastOne36]

There have been quite a few Polish explorers and traders to China over the centuries. I can't remember their names off the top of my head though.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

There have been quite a few Polish explorers and traders to China over the centuries. I can't remember their names off the top of my head though.

Wyatt Earp was one of the more famous ones, though his use of DU shells was very unpopular with the Irish when he passed through on his journey East. But I mean, if it killed Jews dead then it was a-OK with the Poles.

 

[ace99]

Tell me about the Polish colony of Yemen and Poles in Central Asia. There must be a reason for its frequent DoC occurence.

 

[Leoreth]

Tell me about the Polish colony of Yemen and Poles in Central Asia. There must be a reason for its frequent DoC occurence.

Yes. Always question mainstream historiography before doubting my mods as a viable historical model

 

[ace99]

Everyone knows that Ottomans conquered not only Vienna but also Italy and Germany in 1547. Historians are just trying to cover it up.

 

[innonimatu]

Yes. Always question mainstream historiography before doubting my mods as a viable historical model

You joke, I know. But I either didn't ever notice or had forgotten that you were one of the authors of Dawn of Civilization and still updating that mod to Rhye's work. Tanks for all the enjoyable games!

 

[Lone Wolf]

I believe he's the only author of DoC modmod. I prefer 1.9, though, when Poland still wasn't in the game.

 

[ace99]

I do confess I do burn Krakow almost every-time I play. Even as Tibet.

 

[Domen]

Poles in Central Asia

Joseph Stalin knows something about them - ask him.

Also Tsars Nicholas I and Alexander II should know something.

I do confess I do burn Krakow almost every-time I play. Even as Tibet.

Evil, evil, evil you! Shame on you, you genocidal monster.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I heard it recommended once as I was gallivanting about my university's campus that Poland was not quite so influential as the base allele. With a scoff I had to inquire as to where exactly this notion came from, and the person remarked that Poland in fact had very little to do with the history of China and the surrounding terrains.

Needless to say, I was taken aback, and immediately sought a response but none could be found. I'm afraid this is a dead-end for me, even as I know deep within me that Poland is downright inextricable so far as the entire existence of the West is concerned (Battle of Vienna, anyone? I rest my case). But on closer inspection it appears there weren't very many Poles in ancient China.

Am I wrong here? Someone please explain to me how Poland inexorably altered the course of Oriental civilization. Thanks!

There were so many poles in ancient China because they needed to hold up all the roofs.

Next!

 

[ace99]

Evil, evil, evil you! Shame on you, you genocidal monster.

It's such a poorly placed city there's no reason to keep it. It nerfs Vienna, Berlin and Riga.