How to get a job (or not)

[Synobun]

Would I need to wear a tie? Obviously I don't want to arrive in my current work uniform.

Assuming you have a tie that properly fits, you can't go wrong with it. But if you don't readily have one that fits your body and clothes properly, then it's best to forget about it. This of course only applies to things that are below specialized occupations that require years upon years of education and experience so in most instances the casual work wear will fit the bill just fine.

How would I tackle the question "Why do you want this job?". Obviously my mind is going "I want more money, more hours, benifits, and to get out of the job I do not like that's not utilizing my skillset".

Honesty works. But obviously you can't go the blunt route here as you just outlined, you need to go about it in a better way. Tailor the response towards what you're applying for as well. I'll share what I used in my last successful interview when I was asked that. It's paraphrased of course.

"Really, what I'm looking for is something that lets me take care of my needs without coming at my detriment. From what I can tell, the position at [place] has x, y, z and that leads me to believe that working for [company] will be a fair bit more accommodating than what I have lined up right now. On top of that, I'm specifically looking to gain more experience in this particular industry, especially after I heard [noteworthy accomplishment related to company] and I'd like to help facilitate that in any way I possibly can. I do feel that I bring a lot to the table for the workplace in question both in my work and in how I interact with customers and coworkers."

The main point you want to drive across is that you did your research on the company, you know what they're all about, and you know what they need. Along with this knowledge, you must convey the point that you are confident about the job filling your needs. Nobody wants to employ the guy who makes it sound like the job is a last resort. Ask questions that will place the interviewer in the position of revealing information about the relevant industry and then respond with something you know about it. Show that you're interested and knowledgeable about the subject matter and you'll do significantly better than the guy who has all the cookie cutter responses memorized.

 

[KmDubya]

Actually I like the more blunt response that CivGeneral gave as opposed to the ,no offense meant, BS response that you had Synsensa.

Now I am a blunt guy who works in a blunt field of engineering and construction. If the industry is more sales or somewhere where BS carries the day then totally ignore what I've said.

Best thing is to be yourself and relax.

As far as a tie goes, I'd see what the employees wear to work and follow their lead. If everyone has a suit then you'd better have one as well. If everyone is business casual then going business casual might be better.

Good Luck

 

[Synobun]

Actually I like the more blunt response that CivGeneral gave as opposed to the ,no offense meant, BS response that you had Synsensa.

Now I am a blunt guy who works in a blunt field of engineering and construction. If the industry is more sales or somewhere where BS carries the day then totally ignore what I've said.

You have no argument from me there, I am notable for being absurdly blunt at times. Unfortunately many industries today don't like blunt unless it's in a situation where you are pressing down on the lowly employee. Blunt works very well when you're in a no-nonsense industry or if you're self-employed. Not too much when you're trying to get an entry-level job.

Either way, it was still blunt in the sense that it was honest. Just not as... simple and direct. Ideally I'd love to go the direct route but it tends to make people uncomfortable, especially in an interview. My first interview I've ever had was a nightmare as I figured, "hey, screw the system. I'll be me and I'll get the job anyways."

I didn't get the job. Mileage of course varies but for CivG the "honest but verbose" route is probably a better option than the "honest and direct" route. Still, I do agree with you that it's better to be blunt. BSing is annoying which is why I made it clear that he should still be honest. Make use of a slick tongue where it's needed is essentially how I see things at this point. Luckily, slick tongues are only necessary in entry level jobs, industries based on lying and sly words, and when you need to convince a lady to see things from your perspective.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Yeah, honesty works. What made you want to apply to the job? Beyond "they offered me an interview" or "it pays more" there had to have been something that caught your eye on the job board website or something that interested you enough in the position to go through the application process. If it's an internal thing, what makes you like the company enough to want to stick around, or even advance. Money is certainly one aspect, but there's got to be other reasons - that's what they want to hear - those other reasons.

Basically they want to figure out if you're going to be motivated in this job. That you aren't just going to go through the motions so you can pick up your paycheck at the end of the day. Are you going to get up in the morning excited to go get things done at work. That question is about you demonstrating this to them. Doing research on the company helps - it shows you care enough about the position or are passionate enough about the company to do some outside research. Another good one is to tie the job description or duties into your personal interests. Maybe you really like talking or connecting people. Maybe you find spreadsheets and numbers really goddamn interesting. The trick with interviews is to put your own personal touch that separates you from the other candidates. Sure you can give the stock responses like "my weakness is that I try to hard" or "I'm very motivated" or whatever, but so is every other interviewee and without much to distinguish yourself you aren't going to get that 3rd look you need. That's why the best piece of advice anybody can give you is to just be yourself. You've gotten to the interview stage which means a) you care enough about what you're doing to have actually done the work, and b) there's something in your resume that the recruiters like enough to want to hear more. The worst thing you can do is go all metarecruiter on it and try to guess what the interviewer wants to hear. That just leads you into the generic cliché stock responses that everybody else is going to give.

As for dress code - the cliché is to "dress for the job you want". It's about showing that you care enough about landing the job to put some thought into what you're wearing. If you think wearing the tie makes you look more professional and/or improves your presentation then wear it.

 

[GenMarshall]

It's been a while since I've placed in an application to a possition that I'm interested in. How do I go about inquiring about the status of my application via e-mail (E-mail is my option since I normally sleep during the time HR is open)?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Well, first off, you could try not being asleep one day during regular hours.

Do you have an email address with a real name attached? Is the person an HR person or the hiring manager?

How long has it been since you sent in your application?

Is the job still listed as being open?

Dear Bob,

On January 10th I sent in my application for the Sales Manager position (#34641) advertised on your website. It has been three weeks and I would like to know the status of my application. I am seriously interested in the position and would like to present myself and my credentials in person. I would appreciate very much if you could update me on the status of my application. I am available for an interview at your convenience.

Thank you very much,

 

[Flying Pig]

If you're unemployed, surely resuming a normal sleep pattern would be a good start for breaking the 'cycle of unemployment' that we hear so much about.

 

[GenMarshall]

If you're unemployed, surely resuming a normal sleep pattern would be a good start for breaking the 'cycle of unemployment' that we hear so much about.

I'm actually employed ATM. Though working on grave/third shift, which is due to the wonky sleep pattern (I normally crash to bed after I come home from work). Just looking for a better job right now that would offer not only better pay and benifits, but day shift hours as well.

 

[really]

I found this interesting - writing about unemployment makes you more likely to find employment.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/12/08/business/international/britains-ministry-of-nudges.html?h=lAQH_Ve87&s=1&enc=AZOfkXpg_8t5kClGsKRojOnMPo_4sjO8emQXsM3MIPWZPANFxo67_hnMSZdkzP8tAOQ

A 24-year-old psychologist working for the British government, Mr. Gyani was supposed to come up with new ways to help people find work. He was intrigued by an obscure 1994 study that tracked a group of unemployed engineers in Texas. One group of engineers, who wrote about how it felt to lose their jobs, were twice as likely to find work as the ones who didn’t.

 

[carmen510]

I saw this from another section on the internet, and I wonder if other people can corroborate these observations.

"A guy I went to college with is working in the marketing industry, and he told me something funny. You want to know why you rarely get answers on your online applications? Because there aren't actually any jobs, it's just advertisement.

Look at it from their perspective. They can pay $10,000 to take out ads in the local newspaper which people will only glance at for 2-3 seconds, or they can pay $100 to spread their logos/description of the business in job sections online, having thousands of people see it, read about your company, and having a few hundred write about your business like it's the greatest thing since the creation of Coca Cola.

My friend told me the company he worked at had estimated that about 70% of online job ads in our state were fictional and simply advertisement for the company."

 

[Zelig]

You don't really get much advertising exposure from a job ad. Anecdotally, it's my impression that fake job ads are either for HR to gather data on applicants with, or have absurd requirements so that they can claim there's labour shortage and import cheap foreign workers.

I haven't worked from companies with either of those practices, but I have worked for places with poor HR policies regarding promotions and pay bands - so if your boss wants to give you a raise, the only way is to create a new position, get HR to advertise it, and then give you the position.

Also I suspect some places have ads they keep reposting that might look fake because of that, but are being reposted for other reasons. I applied for and got an offer from a place about a year ago that I turned down because of their compensation package - I keep seeing the ad for the same position pop up every so often (and it's currently being advertised), so I'm assuming they're still having either recruitment or retention issues due to their poor compensation levels.

 

[downtown]

There is no way that's true. For nothing else than for the fact that job posting cost a *lot* more than a hundred bucks. The cheapest (for any site worth anything) is around 400, and it'll get drowned in a week. There's way better ROI for your ad budget than that....you'd be better off spending 400 bucks on facebook or LinkedIn.

There is an advertising bonus from a job posting, but you lose that bonus if you give poor customer service to the job candidate.

 

[GenMarshall]

Should I even bother applying to a job that has some skill sets that they prefer x years of an experience (such as cash handling)? I'm starting to get discouraged at applying to jobs that I feel that I'm a fit, yet get a rejection letter that I don't meet the minimum requirement.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Should I even bother applying to a job that has some skill sets that they prefer x years of an experience (such as cash handling)? I'm starting to get discouraged at applying to jobs that I feel that I'm a fit, yet get a rejection letter that I don't meet the minimum requirement.

Don't do that. Don't second guess yourself really. Just keep at it. ---> From a guy with about 2 dozen applications out currently, of which basically all will be rejected for more or less the same reason.

 

[downtown]

Should I even bother applying to a job that has some skill sets that they prefer x years of an experience (such as cash handling)? I'm starting to get discouraged at applying to jobs that I feel that I'm a fit, yet get a rejection letter that I don't meet the minimum requirement.

The penalty you get for applying for a stretch job is really low. Lots of people throw X years in their ad as an optimistic stretch. I know *I* did. If you can make up the ground on your interview or in your cover letter, whats the worst that can happen? They say no?

 

[Zelig]

I'm surprised you get rejection letters.

 

[GenMarshall]

I know *I* did. If you can make up the ground on your interview or in your cover letter

Well, I don't know how it would be even possible to even get a robot in a automated job application system to even get it to human eyes. I don't know if I should just bypass HR and go straight to or network other managers at my work (that in itself is a bit difficult since I work grave while I'm seeking someone to network in is in days).

whats the worst that can happen? They say no?

That and that I'd be stuck in a dead end minimum wage job (and I'm 30 and should have had a good paying job and my own place by now).

 

[Birdjaguar]

Should I even bother applying to a job that has some skill sets that they prefer x years of an experience (such as cash handling)? I'm starting to get discouraged at applying to jobs that I feel that I'm a fit, yet get a rejection letter that I don't meet the minimum requirement.

Well, I don't know how it would be even possible to even get a robot in a automated job application system to even get it to human eyes. I don't know if I should just bypass HR and go straight to or network other managers at my work (that in itself is a bit difficult since I work grave while I'm seeking someone to network in is in days).

Since you are talking about a new job in the same company, by all means skip HR and talk to other managers about your desire to move up. For a few days re-arrange your schedule by "staying up late or getting up early" so you can meet with day shift managers and make your case. Have a one page information sheet on you that states the position you want and why you are qualified. It takes effort on your part.

 

[GenMarshall]

Since you are talking about a new job in the same company, by all means skip HR and talk to other managers about your desire to move up. For a few days re-arrange your schedule by "staying up late or getting up early" so you can meet with day shift managers and make your case. Have a one page information sheet on you that states the position you want and why you are qualified. It takes effort on your part.

An update on that, I've talked with some of my co-workers at work and some of them have pointed me the way as well as looking into other department that their co-workers know if there are any openings in their department aside from the one I am aiming for (Though my goal is short term which involves getting out of a job I don't like).

Also, lately, I've revamped my resume that would pass through the applicant tracking system (I have a gut feeling that some of my rejections or no response are from the software) by switching from a traditional based resume to a skills based resume. I'm not 100% sure if going with a skills based resume would be helpful. Though in reading advice articles on a google trip had it as a suggestion for someone with a short work history and someone undergoing a carrer change (sort of applies to me since I want to get out of janitorial job and into administration or managerial position).

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Well, I don't know how it would be even possible to even get a robot in a automated job application system to even get it to human eyes. I don't know if I should just bypass HR and go straight to or network other managers at my work (that in itself is a bit difficult since I work grave while I'm seeking someone to network in is in days).

Unless you are some hot shot, just stick with the system. If you are truly a fit and are a top candidate, you'd have eventually be recognized and considered.

It makes a world of difference to write a good resume, cover letter, and developer a good portfolio (if IT or design). Skip the bs, keep things concise, and make the important facts as easily registered as possible.

From personal experience, I've been to maybe 10 interviews in total and have sent out 30-50 job applications. Make a few templates for resume/cover letters and make individualized changes for each job application (i.e. position name, list of skills, and maybe an extra paragraph about why you love that position). It was a depressing experience so make sure you don't give up.

That and that I'd be stuck in a dead end minimum wage job (and I'm 30 and should have had a good paying job and my own place by now).

In our parent's generation - yes. House prices are so high these days that it'd take a long time for even decent paying people to get a flat.