How to get a job (or not)

I almost never tell anybody why I rejected them, and it has nothing to do with political correctness.

And I hate hiring managers like you :/

On one occasion 1.5 years ago, I thought I clinched a position. Everyone was so nice to me in the interview especially the HR manager. Then silence. No response. Refusal to be contacted.

On the bright side, I later got a far better job than what they had to offer.
 
I applied at burger king during their 'walk in' interviews (meaning I gave an application and almost immediately got an interview; apparently they were somewhat desperate) but didn't get the job. I was surprised because the entire time the woman interviewing me gave the implication she was impressed by me and thought of me as smart and called be verbatim 'very analytical' but I never got the job.

I talked to a guy in my town that works for a Texas (where I live) agency that is designed to help people get jobs, and he told me that it's possible that she thought I wouldn't stay at the job very long as I'd end up getting a better job, and then the time it would take to train me wouldn't be worth it.
 
I applied at burger king during their 'walk in' interviews (meaning I gave an application and almost immediately got an interview; apparently they were somewhat desperate) but didn't get the job. I was surprised because the entire time the woman interviewing me gave the implication she was impressed by me and thought of me as smart and called be verbatim 'very analytical' but I never got the job.

I talked to a guy in my town that works for a Texas (where I live) agency that is designed to help people get jobs, and he told me that it's possible that she thought I wouldn't stay at the job very long as I'd end up getting a better job, and then the time it would take to train me wouldn't be worth it.

Sounds like you were overqualified. They don't really want "analytical" people at Burger King. Analytical [sic] people spend too much time thinking and not enough time minding the patties.
 
I applied at burger king during their 'walk in' interviews (meaning I gave an application and almost immediately got an interview; apparently they were somewhat desperate) but didn't get the job. I was surprised because the entire time the woman interviewing me gave the implication she was impressed by me and thought of me as smart and called be verbatim 'very analytical' but I never got the job.

I talked to a guy in my town that works for a Texas (where I live) agency that is designed to help people get jobs, and he told me that it's possible that she thought I wouldn't stay at the job very long as I'd end up getting a better job, and then the time it would take to train me wouldn't be worth it.
I'd figure a job with a very high turnover rate wouldn't care about your qualifications so long as you arrive to work on time.

Sounds like you were overqualified. They don't really want "analytical" people at Burger King. Analytical [sic] people spend too much time thinking and not enough time minding the patties.
Overqualified seems to be the general excuse for not hireing people these days.
 
Isn't overqualification easy to avoid by simply avoid mentioning your education outside of high school on your resume? It is what I would have done if I had to apply for such a job. I always keep multiple resumes at hand simply because I never know what kind of job I have to apply for in the future.
 
One of the founders of Whatsapp on not getting a couple of jobs back in 2009.

He was very polite and positive about it.
 
He wouldn't hire you either, 'smugly superior' :rolleyes:
 
Also, lately, I've revamped my resume that would pass through the applicant tracking system (I have a gut feeling that some of my rejections or no response are from the software) by switching from a traditional based resume to a skills based resume. I'm not 100% sure if going with a skills based resume would be helpful. Though in reading advice articles on a google trip had it as a suggestion for someone with a short work history and someone undergoing a carrer change (sort of applies to me since I want to get out of janitorial job and into administration or managerial position).

If you were rejected for a position within a day or two of applying, than it likely was the HR software that booted you out.

As for 'traditional' vs. 'skills based' resumes - I stick with the traditional format, with a big caveat. I make sure that my resume includes the skills that I have. So if I want to say I worked on development of CubeSat propulsion system, I don't simply say, 'designed CubeSat propulsion system'. Instead, I write something like, '*Led team development effort for a novel CubeSat propulsion system *Used NX, Matlab and LABVIEW software to perform finite element analysis on the propellant tank to obtain stress loads, calculate DeltaV performance and to debug testing algorithms.'

That way, you're not just listing skills but you're also stating how you used those skills, which is just as important as the list itself.

I'm sure that 'skills based' resumes are fine if done right - but from the collection of resumes I've seen from colleagues, it's really easy to make a skills based resume that is really bad. The major problems I've seen are just lots of empty space because they either don't have a lot of skills or they just list them without any examples of how they used them. It's one thing to say that you know how to use some piece of software like NX, it's quite another to give a good, concrete example of how you do so. A skills based resume that's got a big list of skills may get through the HR software but when it gets to an actual HR person it will get thrown in the garbage bin pretty quick.

Random aside: It's incredible how often I see 'MS Office' listed as a necessary skill for job listings. I could understand if they said, 'Can use Macros and Templates' or something, but just asking that people know how to use MS Office is kind of redundant IMO as most people can use them to a least a limited extent. I don't like having to give over any space in my resume to 'MS Office proficiency' but if it's in the job description, it's likely in the HR Software as a trigger. :-\
 
If you were rejected for a position within a day or two of applying, than it likely was the HR software that booted you out.
It's usually a week or two after the position closes.

As for 'traditional' vs. 'skills based' resumes - I stick with the traditional format, with a big caveat. I make sure that my resume includes the skills that I have. So if I want to say I worked on development of CubeSat propulsion system, I don't simply say, 'designed CubeSat propulsion system'. Instead, I write something like, '*Led team development effort for a novel CubeSat propulsion system *Used NX, Matlab and LABVIEW software to perform finite element analysis on the propellant tank to obtain stress loads, calculate DeltaV performance and to debug testing algorithms.'

That way, you're not just listing skills but you're also stating how you used those skills, which is just as important as the list itself.
Well I am not fortunate enough to have worked in a capability of the position you described. I mainly worked on mundane tasks of clerical work (nothing anything major or ground breaking), that's about it and I really don't want to list what I did in my current job since it's irreverent to what I am going for.

A skills based resume that's got a big list of skills may get through the HR software but when it gets to an actual HR person it will get thrown in the garbage bin pretty quick.
I don't want to see eather some brainless robot nor a hiring manager kicking my application out. Yet I'm already feeling discouraged and frustrated with seeing no fruition in my efforts.

Should I just invest in a career counselor?
 
It's usually a week or two after the position closes.
Then you likely made it through to a pair of Mk I eyeballs, which means you've beaten the algorithms.


Well I am not fortunate enough to have worked in a capability of the position you described. I mainly worked on mundane tasks of clerical work (nothing anything major or ground breaking), that's about it and I really don't want to list what I did in my current job since it's irreverent to what I am going for.
I'm afraid you missed the point entirely. It doesn't matter what skills I say I have - it's all about me showing you that I know how to actually do them. You should do the same for any 'mundane' skills you posses - give concrete examples of yourself in action instead of listing a bunch of skills that you admit are mundane.

And just between you, me and the internet - the skills I listed in my examples before are mundane tasks for an engineer, really pretty trivial stuff. The point wasn't that I was trying to show off to you what I can do; the point was to show you how to show yourself off.


I don't want to see eather some brainless robot nor a hiring manager kicking my application out. Yet I'm already feeling discouraged and frustrated with seeing no fruition in my efforts.
Pardon me but this is stupid thinking. Look, either apply for jobs or don't. If you apply for jobs, you will be rejected. A lot. It happens to everyone, myself included. Eventually, if you keep at it, you will get through. But as everyone has been telling you in multiple threads now, if you don't apply, you won't get the job.

Should I just invest in a career counselor?
My gut tells me hell no but I have no idea to be honest.
 
It is important to make sure that your resume fits the requirements of the reader. If the reader is a machine, than it needs to meet the criteria of scanning device. If you know the reader will be a person, then you want it read well as English with clearly stated skills and achievements related to the position. For folks starting out without a long list of accomplishments, you should mention the basics: strong work ethic, punctuality, honesty, willingness to follow procedures, ability to get along with others and reliability. Few people actually talk about those most basic of success skills. You should not neglect them. Your recognition of them as important will be noted by a hiring manager. then, of course, you have to live up to them.
 
what's a pretty good answer to "do you consider yourself creative [or like creative problem solver]"

particularly when I kind of question how "creative" a creative problem solver can be, since I kind of view a lot of things as inching forward based on previous work--either your own, or other people's. "Stand on the shoulder of giants" etc etc
 
The first thing I would say is : "How are you defining creativity?" You could wait for an answer, or just jump into your own definition as it applies to you land your skill set. My answer might go something like this:

"I can't sing and I can't dance. I can't draw, paint or write symphonies. I don't have any talent that way. But I can do somethings pretty well. I write well and can express complex ideas in ways that are easily understood. Being a thoughtful listener with a wide knowledge base has enabled me to connect people and ideas in unexpected ways. Over the years I've found that I can find surprising and workable solutions to difficult (or even simple) business problems. Sometimes those solutions can be implemented in a few steps; other times they have needed a negotiated consensus between groups or individuals with differing agendas. I am not afraid to give the credit and the spotlight to others."

Such a general statement communicates a host of sound principles and allows the interviewer to ask drill down questions if they desire. If I had real talent and it was appropriate to the job, I would be prepared to demonstrate it. You should be prepared to give examples of your creativity however you characterize it.
 
what's a pretty good answer to "do you consider yourself creative [or like creative problem solver]"

particularly when I kind of question how "creative" a creative problem solver can be, since I kind of view a lot of things as inching forward based on previous work--either your own, or other people's. "Stand on the shoulder of giants" etc etc

Unfortunately, you have to be creative about your answer. :lol:

It also depends on the type of position you are striving towards. You can potentially start off by making a fictional (or retell a real) scenario where you improved or made possible a procedure by going around an obstacle elegantly.

One of my personal examples would be we were denied direct access to the database storing important information we'd like to store in real time. So my solution was to write a tool that scrapes the necessary webpages on demand and added a background thread to do it on regular intervals.

I am sure you have more amazing and innovative examples to give out.
 
Nope sure don't!

Maybe one day I'll be an "innovative" problem solver though. I actually think sometimes I can be decently creative, but I feel odd if I have to talk about my hobbies in a job interview or professional setting (since my hobbies are, as one might expect, driven a lot by electronic media, forums, and fantasy settings).
 
what's a pretty good answer to "do you consider yourself creative [or like creative problem solver]"

As ywhtptgtfo said, this is just an opportunity to give an example of when you've solved a problem. Creativity isn't just about interpretive dance or pretty poetry; any time you solve a problem, you're creating a solution. So this is literally just asking "give an example of a problem you have faced and how you solved it". A lot of interviewers like to ask that question; the one you've posed here is just a more loaded way of phrasing it. You have surely solved a problem in your professional or academic life; it doesn't need to be a difficult problem, nor does it require a complicated solution. Ywhtptgtfo's example is typical: it's the type of problem that most programmers can solve, but it's still a great example of creating a solution. If you're a computer programmer, then you will have LOADS of really great examples to pick from. Literally any time you make a program without following a tutorial, you're solving a problem.

Worst case scenario: you're fresh out of university with no work experience. You don't have any practical experience in work to draw from, so you don't have a ready-made example of creativity as it applies to a business. But you nonetheless have a plethora of examples in your academic life. I did a physics degree, which isn't a subject that is traditionally characterised as "creative". But when you design an experiment, isn't that an expression of creativity? You need to test X, and eliminate confounding variables Y and Z, so you design an experiment to do that: you create something new, from scratch, to solve a specific problem. Or maybe you encountered a problem with the equipment that you overcame somehow - that's really easy to talk about, because it's something practical and reasonably relatable.

And hell, even if you don't believe you are creative, you can still answer the question and score points on it, depending on the type of person who's interviewing you. The way you approach an integral, for example, is a decent allegory to the way you would solve a problem in business: you see a tough problem, you look at the tools you have available (integration by parts, taking logs, series expansions -- I dunno lol I'd just use mathematica), and then you break the problem down into a series of easier to solve problems. That's what maths is about, right? Taking a complicated problem and reducing it to a set of problems with known solutions? "I approach problems in real life in a similar way: I try to break down the problem into a series of smaller, more manageable problems. I analyse each part separately, so that I can use the right tool for the right part of the problem. And if I can't solve the problem, I try to mitigate against it as far as possible. Some people rely on their creativity to solve a problem, but I've always found that a more methodical, systematic approach is most effective for me."


EDIT: Oh and another thing. With interview questions, sometimes you really don't have an answer for it. E.g. some interviewers will ask you a really vague, elusive question, which, even after you've asked them to clarify, remains essentially impossible to answer directly. In this case, I just use it as an opportunity to talk about whatever I want to talk about. I have a list of points that I want to get across -- things that I need to convince the interviewer of in order for them to hire me. So if the job requires X, Y and Z, then I need to get the point across that I have X, Y and Z. Let's say that at this point in the interview, I have only got across points X and Y; I still need to convince them that I have Z. So if they ask a stupid, vague question to which I have no direct answer, I'll simply start talking about Z instead.

Politicians do something called a "pivot". If someone asks a question on employment, they'll "pivot" to talk about something else, e.g.:
>> "Mr Cameron, unemployment currently stands at 7.3%, and the official Bank of England forecast is for it to remain above 7% for the next 3 years. The Financial Times has published an opinion piece criticising your jobs policy. What is your response to these criticisms?"
> "The best way to get people back into work is to make sure they have the skills necessary to participate in a modern knowledge economy. That's why my Conservative government is reforming education, making it easier for parents to choose which schools their children go to. <continues to talk about their flagship education policy>"

Don't be afraid to just start talking about the thing you want to talk about -- it's better than having no answer at all!!!
 
I applied at burger king during their 'walk in' interviews (meaning I gave an application and almost immediately got an interview; apparently they were somewhat desperate) but didn't get the job. I was surprised because the entire time the woman interviewing me gave the implication she was impressed by me and thought of me as smart and called be verbatim 'very analytical' but I never got the job.

I talked to a guy in my town that works for a Texas (where I live) agency that is designed to help people get jobs, and he told me that it's possible that she thought I wouldn't stay at the job very long as I'd end up getting a better job, and then the time it would take to train me wouldn't be worth it.

That is logical. A lot probably depends on your perceived employability. Like if you are working on a degree in engineering or chemistry, the burger job might no want to risk training you because you probably will find a better job. I wouldn't worry about coming across 'too good' an interview, especially since a manager complemented you.

If you were just young and it was your first job, then you might not have been her preferred candidate, and I think she just wanted to complement you anyway.

Either way, it's better to shine on an interview.
 
I've been reading in my paper on how people my age group are fleeing the state that I live in and that's sort of giving me a motivation to seek a job out of state to more greener pastures. The itch also came to me after seeing that I've been building up enough capital to expand my job search range. Are there any hurtles I would have to encounter in an interstate job (e.g. living in one state and working in another)?
 
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