How to proceed from here? (Deity, Hatshepsut)

[Revent]

Hey, thanks for all the input!! Sorry about the resource bubble. I just completely forgot about it! And I have uploaded the save

@Seraiel, thank you for all the advice! Really appreciate it and I'll definitely give this a shot and try out a war chariot rush Just a question, what do I do if Asoka ALREADY has metal hooked up? That will be very problematic. 8str (+fortification bonuses and city bonus) vs 5 or 5.5. It will be a problem to take out a holy city which will be his city 2. If his city is on a hill too, that will also be trouble. Can war chariots still do it at that point?

 

[Seraiel]

Spears are ok, and if you pillage Metal early, AI won't have more than one or two, probably none though, War Chariots come really early, and you're planning to choke Asoka once you got 2 of them. As he went Polytheism first, chances that he'll have BW are already small, but don't worry about Spears if you do what I say.

Hills-cities are problematically everytime though, they even are for the stronger Horse Archers. You still can be successful then, you only two times as many troops then, which will make it more difficult to conquer a 2nd CIV with War Chariots and 3rd is probably impossible then. If you already saw, that his capital is non-hill and that only the holy city can be on a hill, you can also always lure out defenders of it by leaving the conquered capital undefended.

Spears are not STR 8 btw. afaik, I think the 100% bonus against mounted is actually a 50% malus for the Chariot, so it gets subtracted from the War Chariot, which gives the Chariot slightly better chances with promos. If you got 20% winning odds, 2 attackers will still own 1 defender, have an extra attacker in reserve just to be on the safe side. Chariot-rushes are very much about numbers, you simply double each defender if it gets hard. Chop with 2 Workers and whip on the turn where no Forests get come in, produce 3 WCs in 4 turns. If you steal both of his Workers or at least one of them and then choke him by pillaging or parking troops on his Food, he can only work Grassland Forests, that's not really much production, even with Deity-bonuses. If he has Slavery, don't threaten his city, so never have more attackers in 2-tiles radius than he has defenders, otherwise he'll whip. I actually don't think he has any chance to defend, if you use the right tactics. I didn't know most of those 2y ago when I played my last game with Hatty, and still I conquered 3 Civs just by numbers. Really try to get his Workers, that has top priority. AIs really get crippled, once you stole its Workers, and you get greatly pushed, Workerstealing changes the game completely. You can probably even take a cease-fire after having both and after having killed an additional scout, and then you simply wait until you have enough troops to strike hard and fast, while he will build new Workers.

Don't worry, play focussed and remember all those tactics I mentioned. Just don't hold me responsible if you lose 10 times with 90%, that's something against which I'm unable to do anything aswell . Good luck!

 

[Revent]

Okay, conquered Asoka. Next is going to be a problem. I could PROBABLY take a few of Boudica's cities. She already has metal hooked up (not sure where) and 7 cities. The only advantage I have going for me is that since she has spent so much time REXing, her unit concentration will hopefully be low despite being a unit spammer. Is it wise to attack her and take/raze a few cities or shall I just take it peacefully for now and wait until construction? My tech/economy is crashing. I only wanted his holy city and his capital for myself but he founded Judaism which made things a bit more frustrating. 11 war chariots left and more coming.

Spoiler :

 

[Izuul]

I'd develop land and back fill now. Boudica is too far away and not worth attacking IMO. Get the economy rolling.

 

[SpK]

I'd develop land and back fill now. Boudica is too far away and not worth attacking IMO. Get the economy rolling.

Likely go this route. Unless it is an awesome city, you can more often settle a better location with Hatty. Worker stealing, strategical pillaging, mobile defense....
keep the war chariots working for you, and keep building some to cover losses, even if "conquest" stalls, they can keep your first victim weak until elepult, and they promote so nicely too

 

[yyeah]

Yea theres a lot of land to fill up.
Iam at 1 AD now with 14 cities 19 workers,settled last city 2 turns ago.
265 at 100%( without CS ;/) witch is great i think, but aim break even at 20% ;/
think i need to choopout some courthouses ;/.

 

[Pangaea]

First off, congratulations with a successful Deity rush

I'd develop land and back fill now. Boudica is too far away and not worth attacking IMO. Get the economy rolling.

I agree. There looks to be a lot of land to fill in, albeit some of it is jungle. Unsure on what techs you have, but I'd say scrap the extra barracks(es), put down more cottages (see Asoka helped out), get up granaries and a library+scientists. Develop the economy and your land. And of course nab that barb city.

If possible (it may not be), chop out the Oracle and take Currency. Sell small backfill techs for and get some GPT trades. Selling is best.

Boudica is pretty far away, your economy is already collapsing. Best to hold off. Maintenance is killer on Deity.

 

[yyeah]

I forgot how awsome Great Spys are

Spoiler :

I was running 2 GS in city where Asoka bulid GW wanted to bulb Phi (after Academy in Cap),
and run Caste, Pacifism.
But GS has born.
With this discountsi get CS allrdy, now i will have Phi and Lit a bit better then this GS

 

[SpK]

Yea theres a lot of land to fill up.
Iam at 1 AD now with 14 cities 19 workers,settled last city 2 turns ago.
265 at 100%( without CS ;/) witch is great i think, but aim break even at 20% ;/
think i need to choopout some courthouses ;/.

Spoiler :

Are you in a position to conquer and raze/gift cities? building units, getting conquest gold, but not adding maintenance often puts you in a better position, especially if you pull in an ally or two - settling the empty area or claiming cities once your economy is better...
I tend to focus on dom/con, I suppose courthouses would be positioning towards the Spacerace...

With that much research, should be whatever you prefer, cause it all has a good chance to succeed

 

[Izuul]

I would be hesitant to start a war with Boudica on deity unless i was fully prepared to finish it.

 

[yyeah]

Yea, and i have no reason to make a war now even that shes in war with Jao.
I think just 14 cities on standard is a lot i should build FP.
Iam not even ready for Cuirassiers now, AP is just bulid, i need Oxford, NE,HE.
I dont know what i will do yet i think Cav .
Or maybe ill go for something crazy like nukes and tanks

 

[Seraiel]

Backfill is probably a good idea, keep those WCs though, you can still use them against Boudica, with Catapults, their chances even against Longbows aren't that bad (sounds ridiculous, but 2 against 1 still works, it's only 5 agains 6, and the WC ignores the FS of the Longbow) .

But what are you doing Revent? Working a Plains-Hill-Mine instead of Wet Corn, just because of Happiness? I hope you're kidding, just let the city grow into , and then 3-pop whip a Library or build Settlers!

Well done on the rush btw., seems my advice worked. You're basically already in a winning position now, if you don't do things like those with the Plains-Hill-Mine, just settle good cities now, and see, that you get that Great Prophet for Theology, Theology should be enough Tradegood to get you all other techs, so no research needed. If you got too much (didn't look) so can research, save it and continue with Paper right afterwards, then you can Lib -> Cuirrs at 300 AD. Try to play this step by step, it's not clear, when war against Boudica will be advisable. Could be in a few centuries, when you got your new cities and they're size 4 and have Granaries, could be that you're already at Cuirrassiers then. Just don't settle bad territory, and coordinate your Workers well, and you're good. Also, try to get a GS paralell to the GP, a bulb of Education is helpful always, and an Academy (weaker choice) wouldn't be bad aswell, so think about getting CoL and run Caste, also gives you faster Borderpops via Caste Artists. You can switch to Slavery and whip the Granaries, then switch back to Caste again. Don't build too much Infrastructure, even if you're CRE, and Libraries are half price. You need Granaries, maybe Forges and then you want to continue the war onto the next target, you can still achieve a lot with a mixed Stack of some Elephants, your leftover War Chariots and some Catapults. Try to not waste more time than needed, in war-games it's best to keep conquering continuously, it's just not advisable atm., because Boudica is so far away, and you got so much room left. Once that is filled up though, the next war should follow, not mattering at which unit you are, Elephants and Catapults work 'til Rifles, so no need to hold back, should she have Pikes or whatever at that point, though I hope, she won't, because Pikes is somehow the edge of Elepult, it works, but it's not really efficient anymore.

Good luck.

 

[Revent]

Turn 82 and The Oracle is in! I whipped it just to be 100% sure even though there's a penalty! I don't know HOW I got it I normally don't even get the oracle on Immortal !

Spoiler :

So plan is to take currency. Hold off on getting a GS so that I can get a GP to bulb theology. GS is then going to be half ready already to bulb Education? I've got 1 settler ready to settle a fish city but waiting until currency comes in as my economy has been on the brink of collapse (war gold kept me going). Researched alpha, backfilled for everything else, used workers to prechop in capital.

In hindsight, I think I should have built oracle in Delhi. That city looks like a better capital than mine. I can build LOTS of cottages in that city (already working on it although a bit late) Room for 5 more riverside cottages. It may be worth making this my capital and using my current capital as a GP farm OR build the globe there...What do you guys think?

Very stressful turnset. I had to micromanage every turn. Switch commerce here and there, took SO much work! Deity, even with a great start is very tough! I wanted to rip my hair out at one point

 

[Seraiel]

Good play.

Don't get hung up on strategies like Oracle, especially not that late. It worked, because you killed the only civ that could or maybe even only would have built it, nobody probably researched Priesthood, only the religious civs go for that tech at most of the times. Currency is a solid pick, you can repair your economy with it in no time, the additional TRs make the difference.

Moving the capital doesn't sound reasonable for me, your capital is great imo. Ok, 5 more riverside Cottages, yes, that quite a lot, but until those have grown, the gain you get from that against the costs of a new Palace, I don't think it's worth it. You can do it if you want, but the gain will probably be microscopic if seen over the total round.

Micromanaging every city every turn ist exhausting and costs a lot of energy, but it's the right way if you really want to play well. Micro is very strong, it's what I learned the earliest, and I'm no Micromanager type, I just did, because it's so important. Don't get overstressed, breath from time to time, you're doing fine. Growing your capital, that's the most important thing you have to do now, seeing it at size 2 at 800 BC is not really that what pleases me, though I understand your decision to whip Oracle, I wrote "build it in Asoka's city" in one of my posts though, care better for your capital next time, if you rush early, and get another great city early, abuse that one, your capital doesn't need to get stressed, it has enough tasks to fulfill, enough buildings to build, direct tasks to other cities if it is possible, your capital is only producing troops and getting whipped in the beginning, because you have no other city, it mustn't suffer any longer than necessary.

Remember the thing about resource bubbles, I cannot see, if you got Stone or not. Building the mids, is questionable anyhow, you can probably conquer them. Do as I wrote, build Granaries and maybe Forges, few Libraries, not more, push for the next war. And another tip: Don't build too many Cottages, I did so too, and I've always regretted it later. Your financial problem is temporary, once your capital grows and you got the extra TRs, it'll be solved in no time, you're playing for Dom / Conquest, so let the other cities focus on production.

 

[yyeah]

Capitol is fine a little bit low on food but will do work.

Spoiler :

And yea your cap is size 2 witch is not too good. Like you can see my is only 16 now and i didnt whip from it at all after WC rush. You need to start to work cottages on 5 grasslands ASAP and let them grow( i made misstake nad was working on only 3 of them ;/).
As you can see i have 4 towns allrdy and i didnt went for fast Pottery.
As mentioned grow cap to happy cap and produce settlers and workers.

You have 3 cities around your capitol witch can support, and work on cottages.

Delhi is i think best city to make NE. It isnt great becouse only have 2 food but we dont have better. Iam bulding NE becouse i want to make 2 GMs and upgrade like 20-30 HAs to Cav.
vs Boudica we need at least 20 units inicial stack Cuirassiers or Cav no matter to take care of her smoothly.

I allways regret later if i dont bulid enough cottages in my other cities.

 

[Izuul]

I allways regret later if i dont bulid enough cottages in my other cities.

When playing for a military victory (and i usually do) i find it best to avoid building many cottages in other cities besides the capitol. They are more versatile providing food and hammers. Too many cottages in your cities will greatly hinder your ability to build units when you reach your crucial military tech.

 

[yyeah]

When playing for a military victory (and i usually do) i find it best to avoid building many cottages in other cities besides the capitol. They are more versatile providing food and hammers. Too many cottages in your cities will greatly hinder your ability to build units when you reach your crucial military tech.

Well maybe i wasnt clear with it.
I meen when iam going for lib race and cuir/cav rush( and this what Revant should do IMO). I find that just few, well maybe 4 or 5 more cottages makes a huge diference at least for me.
Thing is diferent if we are going for Constr or Engi.
Its allso depends on land what we can get. With this land aim definetly advicing put some more cottages.

Its allso depends on do you whip hard, i changed my playstyle a little and i dont whip that much especialy if i have a lot of forest to choop.
If you do theres no point to setup up this cottages.

 

[yyeah]

@Seraiel

I wanted to resist but just i cant, i can imagine that you take Longbows with WC + Cats / WE + Cats but this is just uneffcien and you loose so many cats that you probably end this "rush" when everyone willl be hitting Rifling .
I can imagine that you are taking out 3 civs with WCs but on marathon/epic not freaking standard/normal. I dont know waht settings you used to do this, for sure not standard. 2 civs ok its definetly doable but not 3.

But this

Elephants and Catapults work 'til Rifles,

What are you smokeing brou

 

[Revent]

To Turn 99 now. Really weird. Only one AI had Polytheism None had Monotheism. First to Code of Laws but am going to get beat by Willem to Philosophy unfortunately. Currently researching CS. Btw, Mids was for failgold

Regarding cottages, Gandhi built a few riverside green cottages in outskirt cities. Is it worth keeping the ones that have grown into villages and towns or replacing them with farms?

Boudica has mids so Police State will be very helpful in keeping the war going after I cap her. Kublai is being hated by everyone as well so it is making diplomacy very easy. De Gaulle is second most hated.

Spoiler :

 

[civfanchambers]

Actually elephants and catapults is efficient till rifles. Elephants own HA and knights, supported by cats elephants to well against pikes, whether in cities or on the open field. Muskets are nothing special unless playing as Ethiopia or Ottomans. Rifles and Cuirs are truly the big jump forward. Till then elephants should serve you well.