I just don't like mitt Romney

That is a flat out lie. [wiki]Planned_Parenthood#Funding[/wiki] The vast majority of it's funding is from the federal government.

The federal government also funds certain roads, which "frees up" money that could be used for you buying cocaine. Therefore the federal government funds people's cocaine habits, by that logic.

If you read the wiki, it says money is fungible, and that "some opponents have argued" [weasel words] that therefore federal money is for abortions, even though it isn't.
 
I honestly think that one can be pro-life and libertarian at the same time. They don't really conflict, they're not about the same thing. The pro-life argument mostly revolves around biological facts and moral assumption. The theme of those facts and assumptions are used elsewhere to build a libertarian world-view. They would conflict even less if the person gave a nuanced position on their pro-life views with regards to things like rape.

In counter-point, it IS more libertarian to be against the death-penalty, because it saves tax-dollars (in the real world) and because it limits State power.

Something Awful is correct in that the libertarian viewpoint doesn't care about people. I mean it does, but it values its version of 'freedom' with the highest weight, and then builds a social structure down from there. It's clear that a lot of people don't value their 'freedom' most, they value lots of other things, some of them more. So, a social system that values freedom at the pinnacle will necessarily not have those people's best interest in mind.
 
The federal government also funds certain roads, which "frees up" money that could be used for you buying cocaine. Therefore the federal government funds people's cocaine habits, by that logic.

If you read the wiki, it says money is fungible, and that "some opponents have argued" [weasel words] that therefore federal money is for abortions, even though it isn't.

WIthout that money, it would have to get the money from somewhere else. That would mean it would have get those who want and abortion to pay for it when most can't. Planned Parenthood would not be around without government help. 1/3 is a lot of money and would be impossible to replace. Try living one a wage that pays only 2/3rds of what pays you now, it just won't happen.
 
Who the hell are you to talk about "proper Libertarian" anything? You think the government should have the authority to execute people.
Yes, but something something Jesus something. Obvious when you think about it.
 
That is a flat out lie. [wiki]Planned_Parenthood#Funding[/wiki] The vast majority of it's funding is from the federal government.

You really need to read your own links

Planned Parenthood has received federal funding since 1970, when President Richard Nixon signed into law the Family Planning Services and Population Research Act, amending the Public Health Service Act. Title X of that law provides funding for family planning services, including contraception and family planning information. The law enjoyed bipartisan support from liberals who saw contraception access as increasing families' control over their lives, and conservatives who saw it as a way to keep people off welfare. Nixon described Title X funding as based on the premise that "no American woman should be denied access to family planning assistance because of her economic condition."[42]

In the fiscal year ending June 30, 2010, total revenue was $1.05 billion: clinic revenue totaling $320 million, government grants and reimbursements of $487 million, private contributions and bequests of $224 million, and other revenues $17 million.[43] Approximately two-thirds of the revenue is put towards the provision of health services, while non-medical services such as sex education and public policy work make up another 16%; management expenses, fundraising, and international family planning programs account for most of the rest.

Planned Parenthood receives about a third of its money in government grants and contracts (about $360 million in 2009).[44] By law, federal funding cannot be allocated for abortions,[45] but some opponents of abortion have argued that allocating money to Planned Parenthood for the provision of other medical services "frees up" funds to be re-allocated for abortion
 
WIthout that money, it would have to get the money from somewhere else. That would mean it would have get those who want and abortion to pay for it when most can't. Planned Parenthood would not be around without government help. 1/3 is a lot of money and would be impossible to replace. Try living one a wage that pays only 2/3rds of what pays you now, it just won't happen.


And 10s of 1000s of women and babies would suffer and die every year because women would not have access to all the other health services PP provides, and no one else does.
 
Sometimes, you really can judge a book by its cover.

True story
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Why yes, yes I am. I like Mitt. I stand with Mitt. I've donated to Mitt. I look forward to celebrating his victory when I wake up November 7th.
 
WIthout that money, it would have to get the money from somewhere else. That would mean it would have get those who want and abortion to pay for it when most can't. Planned Parenthood would not be around without government help. 1/3 is a lot of money and would be impossible to replace. Try living one a wage that pays only 2/3rds of what pays you now, it just won't happen.

Hi.

Which charity would you give to, if you wanted to help mothers during the prenatal, perinatal, and postnatal period?
 
Why yes, yes I am. I like Mitt. I stand with Mitt. I've donated to Mitt. I look forward to celebrating his victory when I wake up November 7th.

I don't know how to say "Thank goodness this isn't going to happen" while still conveying the message to any posters that don't know me that I am not liberal or an Obama supporter;)

I honestly think that one can be pro-life and libertarian at the same time. They don't really conflict, they're not about the same thing. The pro-life argument mostly revolves around biological facts and moral assumption. The theme of those facts and assumptions are used elsewhere to build a libertarian world-view. They would conflict even less if the person gave a nuanced position on their pro-life views with regards to things like rape.

In counter-point, it IS more libertarian to be against the death-penalty, because it saves tax-dollars (in the real world) and because it limits State power.
Something Awful is correct in that the libertarian viewpoint doesn't care about people. I mean it does, but it values its version of 'freedom' with the highest weight, and then builds a social structure down from there. It's clear that a lot of people don't value their 'freedom' most, they value lots of other things, some of them more. So, a social system that values freedom at the pinnacle will necessarily not have those people's best interest in mind.

I can perhaps agree with the bold statement. I can also say this is a rare issue where I do agree with conservatism over libertarianism. I agree with liberals over libertarians on the existance of the safety net (Although I disagree with liberals on how far it should go, by a huge margin.)

Being libertarian does not mean never disagreeing with libertarian ideas.

Believe it or not, Political compass is the test that puts me as MOST authoritarian. On most other tests I wind up near the far end of the Libertarian section. I don't even register as moderate on most other tests.
 
I don't know how to say "Thank goodness this isn't going to happen" while still conveying the message to any posters that don't know me that I am not liberal or an Obama supporter;)

Actually, since the race is literally too close to call at this moment, there is a decided chance that it could happen.

I know i'm voting for him, as is my whole family.
 
I don't know how to say "Thank goodness this isn't going to happen" while still conveying the message to any posters that don't know me that I am not liberal or an Obama supporter;)

Aw, worried that someone will have to read two of your posts to know that instead of just one? Or just reading your signature, for that matter? ;)
 
I can perhaps agree with the bold statement. I can also say this is a rare issue where I do agree with conservatism over libertarianism. I agree with liberals over libertarians on the existance of the safety net (Although I disagree with liberals on how far it should go, by a huge margin.)

Being libertarian does not mean never disagreeing with libertarian ideas.

I also self-identify as libertarian. And you're right, there's no reason why you have to adopt the planks of the political group you most identify with! It's much better to have independent theories, and to sculpt them as you get wiser
 
Being libertarian does not mean never disagreeing with libertarian ideas.
Yes, it does. On a purely semantic level, that is what it means to say "I am a libertarian". It doesn't mean that you agree with the ideas that most libertarians agree with, sure, but it does mean that you affirm that your ideas are authentically libertarian despite those differences. You can't say "I'm a libetarian, except for X"- particularly given that with yourself, it's not so much "X" as "A through Z"- because that means you are not a libertarian, you're just somebody who supports a lot of the same policies that libertarians support.
 
Actually, since the race is literally too close to call at this moment, there is a decided chance that it could happen.

I know i'm voting for him, as is my whole family.

Is it really? I thought Obama was ahead.

How do you know how "Your whole family" is voting?

My dad is voting for Romney as the "Lesser of two evils" as well. Honestly, I don't see the logic of that in NYS. If Romney wins New York, he won like Reagan did anyway. Obama has New York. Now, that's no reason not to vote for Romney, in my opinion, but by similar logic I'd say it is not useless to vote for Gary Johnson even though he has no chance.

I'm honestly not any happier with conservative foreign policy anymore than I am with liberal fiscal policy (Social policy matters a little less to me at the Presidential level since most control of social policies is left to the states, although if we had an extreme social conservative like Rick Santorum, or on the other hand a liberal who vocally supported, say, Federal hate speech laws and banning guns, that would factor into my decision. Considering I don't believe Romney will do anything about abortion, its pretty much a wash between the two on social policy.) As such, I have no reason to care who wins other than the fact that if Romney wins, he is the Republican candidate again in 2016, guaranteed (Unless he sucks so bad that the Democrats take their version of a Reaganesque victory in 2016, and even then, Carter was still the Democrat nominee;))

I'm honestly open to be convinced that someone of my political persuasion should want Romney on the throne instead of Obama, especially considering the fact that it ruins any chance of someone better than Romney getting elected in 2016 (Again, given my political philosophy.)

Aw, worried that someone will have to read two of your posts to know that instead of just one? Or just reading your signature, for that matter? ;)

:lol:

My signature doesn't really explicitly say "I don't support Obama" does it?;)

I also self-identify as libertarian. And you're right, there's no reason why you have to adopt the planks of the political group you most identify with! It's much better to have independent theories, and to sculpt them as you get wiser

This could be an interesting conversation, and I'd also kind of like to explain to you WHY my position on the death penalty. PM coming.

Yes, it does. On a purely semantic level, that is what it means to say "I am a libertarian". It doesn't mean that you agree with the ideas that most libertarians agree with, sure, but it does mean that you affirm that your ideas are authentically libertarian despite those differences. You can't say "I'm a libetarian, except for X"- particularly given that with yourself, it's not so much "X" as "A through Z"- because that means you are not a libertarian, you're just somebody who supports a lot of the same policies that libertarians support.

I guess it depends on how you define "Libertarian." I think we have way too many laws, regulations, and taxes. I think there are a lot of crimes that shouldn't be considered crimes, and I think some crimes that should be considered crimes are punished too harshly, or just plain incorrectly (Our response to nonviolent theft should ALWAYS be having the criminal compensate the victim in some way and NEVER "Lock them up and screw the victim" which is really what we do now.) However, when we get to the realm of murder, rape, and the like, my only real concern is putting innocent people to death. In my mind, libertarianism is not an excuse for criminals to get lighter sentences. But then again, that's because that's not the reason I became libertarian-minded (At least "ish") in the first place.

Honestly, in America, YOU would be the one getting laughed at for claiming to be "Libertarian" considering your opposition to property rights and capitalism. We don't consider that "Libertarian" here. I'm fine with the fact that defintions are different in Europe than they are here, but that goes both ways. Few people in the US would claim someone like Ron Paul or Gary Johnson is not libertarian. In fact, that's exactly why CelticEmpire was kind of like "What do you mean Ron Paul isn't a libertarian" when someone insinuated such. In America, that would be considered crazy talk. In Europe, on the other hand, libertarianism is more associated with the left. Neither definition is "Wrong" any more so than your usage of British words in general would be considered "Wrong." I mean TECHNICALLY you're speaking Queen's English while I'm speaking American English. The fact that we can understand each other MOST of the time hardly means we speak the same language;)
 
Believe it or not, Political compass is the test that puts me as MOST authoritarian. On most other tests I wind up near the far end of the Libertarian section. I don't even register as moderate on most other tests.

Probably because the number of freedoms you allegedly support can be counted on one hand. Freedom to drink large sodas, for starters.
 
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