Immigration, the melting pot and multiculturalism.

[jamiethearcher]

What are your thoughts on the topic? One of the career areas I am focusing in is immigration law, so its something I have thought about quite a bit. I just wanted to hear what everyone else had to say.

For the record, I am FOR immigration - my mother is an immigrant to Canada, and my wife is an immigrant to the United States, and I think immigration benefits the recipient country by bringing in fresh ideas, cultures, and blood.


Thoughts?

EDIT: as for the topic of illegal immigrants, I am against them, and think the fastest way to end that problem would be to ensure they are paid the same wages as people who are legally here. Think about it - if you had to pay an illegal the same as an American, who would you hire?

 

[amadeus]

It all depends on where the fresh ideas are coming from. If they're coming from a place like Korea or Poland, come in and join the party.

But if they're from Saudi Arabia or Mexico? I'm afraid some of those ideas (sharia, refusing to speak English) are best left where they are.

 

[jamiethearcher]

It all depends on where the fresh ideas are coming from. If they're coming from a place like Korea or Poland, come in and join the party.

But if they're from Saudi Arabia or Mexico? I'm afraid some of those ideas (sharia, refusing to speak English) are best left where they are.

Why do they have to learn English? America has no official language!

However, I am willing to concede the point on Sharia, thats not something I would like to take hold here.

 

[SuperSloth]

i support immigration, my parents are immigrants. but what i dont support is our leniency towards illegals. they are free to permeate our borders and suck the tax dollars right out of our wallets.

i dont like the term melting pot because it implies that we are all the same. id rather use multiculturalism since it (to me) seems to celebrate our differences rather than lumping us into one homogenous group.

 

[downtown]

My mother, along with her family, immigrated to the US to escape an opressive regime, and to build a better life for their family.

When they got off the plane, nobody spoke a lick of English, and im not 100% positive they even had green cards. They worked their tails off, and with the help of a supportive hispanic community (my grandparents were lucky...they also spoke spanish, so they were able to join local hispanic support orginazations) and a helping hand from uncle sam, they pulled themselves up.

My grandparents never really assimilated. They both have very thick accents. My grandpa never became a citizen, my grandmother, only last year. Both are still pretty poor, because neither of them were able to get more than a high school education. However, all three of their children hold college degrees, speak english well, and have contriubted to their communities.

Because of my background, i'm very sympathetic to the cause of immigrants, and have considered immigration law myself. While there are some criminals out there, most of these people just want to work, and do better than they can back home. I dont think we ought to turn anybody away who's willing to bust their tail and obey our laws, no matter where they are from. The payoff might not come from the first immigrants, but in a few generations, it sure does.

 

[jamiethearcher]

i support immigration, my parents are immigrants. but what i dont support is our leniency towards illegals. they are free to permeate our borders and suck the tax dollars right out of our wallets.

To be fair, I edited my original post after reading this one, but how exactly do you think they "suck the tax dollars right out of our wallets"? They aren't eligible for government services.

 

[amadeus]

Why do they have to learn English? America has no official language!

They have to learn it because it's spoken by the vast majority of U.S. citizens. It's also the universal language of the United States government including all documents and provided services.

To be fair, I edited my original post after reading this one, but how exactly do you think they "suck the tax dollars right out of our wallets"? They aren't eligible for government services.

What do you think the police, the fire department, and the highways are? These are goods and services provided by the taxpayer to other taxpayers.

 

[downtown]

They have to learn it because it's spoken by the vast majority of U.S. citizens. It's also the universal language of the United States government including all documents and provided services.
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except the ones they have in spanish as well

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

taxes also pay for housing and welfare that illegals are using in states like california.

they also dont pay taxes since they are here illegally and work for under the table pay so whatever services they do use, they dont contribute back to to begin with.

if anyone thinks illegals dont steal from our wallets, look up the term anchor babies, many mexican women have come here illegally to have a child and since the child is technically born here they are an american. more often than not those women dont pay for the hospitalization they recieve. so who pays for that? everyone else who pays their health care bills. besides this the women are put into tax subsidized housing and given welfare in some form since they have to take care of said american born child. they cant just kick the woman out of the country. its been a problem for decades as i can remember watching something about this in the news in the mid 80's.

and yes english is the language used by the majority of people here. i do think we need an "official language" other countries do and those countries expect immigrants to learn their language, only seems right we do the same.
i think its reasonable to do this and expect this. it would also be fair we learn spanish if we go to spain or french if we go to france. its called fitting in and going into a country you arent a citizen of and expecting everyone else to conform to you is not only unreasonable it is arrogant. assimilation is the process every immigrant goes through, they have to learn new things to get by in their new home. that doesnt mean they leave behind who they are or where they came from but if they move to another country and make it their home, its in their own interest to fit in. it makes it easier to find a good job good housing...etc.

i dont give a crap that lettuce is cheaper because jorge is willing to come here illegally via a "coyote" who then milks him of every dollar he can basically forcing him to be his slave, im willing to pay more for produce so jorge can work here legally and not be held under the thumb of someone forcing them to hand over every cent he makes to pay the coyote back for taking him across the border. and believe me it happens every day to a lot of illegals, suddenly the coyote changes his mind and decides to charge them more once they cross over and since they have no more money they have to work to pay them meaning they arent working for themselves. so not only do they get paid less than minimum wage they turn over their money to someone who is exploiting them. isnt that wonderful? think about that next time you have a salad.

 

[kingjoshi]

I've worked with many illegals and am one myself. Though if the US doesn't change the laws this month in Congress, I'll leave to Canada. (Jamie, if you're really an immigration lawyer, I might seek professional service from you.) So I have a different perspective than some.

First, illegals should learn English. For themselves, their children and greater benefit. No one is requiring forgetting their native language, but for basic communication reasons, one language is ideal.

Second, even if a child is American, they can still kick out the mother (and her child). Whatever laws you referred to either have been changed or enforced. Only after you're 18 can you apply to immigration for your parents. Of course the child can stay, but the parents, no. My brother was born in the US, but my parents couldn't change their legal status or anything, so we remained illegal.

Third, immigrants contribute way more to the economy then what they take out. ALL projections on government revenues by the IRS and others ASSUME that income from illegal immigrants will continue. They assume that people will continue to use fake Social Security numbers or real ones from someone else that has left the country and pay taxes without taking anything back out (from social security).

The industries that are heavily influence by illegal immigration wouldn't make nearly as much money nor pay as much corporate taxes without the labor. I'm not saying some illegals aren't abusing the system, but most pay taxes (income, sales, property) and whatever drain they are, they contribute back.

Fourth, [illegal] immigrants provide value that many people aren't willing to do. For example, a friend used to work 6 days a week, 12 hours a day. He was a legal immigrant, but the point being, the willingness to work any hours can compensate even higher wages. Working at a Chinese restuarant, the Americans often had time conflicts with school/college, day care, babysitting, etc. Not to mention they didn't want to work 12 hours shifts, endless hours a week and would randomly request days off for recreation.

Most of the illegals will work as many hours as you give, as long shifts as you have, etc. With that much time, they get trained faster and are more reliable in regards to scheduling. Except when you abruptly quit on you, which is a major con.

Personally, I think illegal immigration needs to be stopped. But there needs to be a solution versus political crap that doesn't solve or treat a darn thing but makes it look like the politicians care. There are serious issues that need to be addressed, but I'd rather hear about legitimate issues instead of trumped up biased charges.

EDIT: on topic. I think any society needs a blend between diversity and assimilation. Both are necessary.

 

[Winner]

I'd welcome more Ukrainians, Slovaks, Poles, Vietnamese etc. in the Czech Republic, as long as they aren't Muslims.

About two weaks ago, the public TV channel broadcasted a documentary about the opinions of Czech Muslims - basically they all supported terrorism and Islamization of Europe (which is "natural" according to them ). They're dangerous, so they shouldn't be allowed to immigrate (and should be encouraged to emigrate ), or we end up like France or Netherlands.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Exactly how many Muslims do you have in the Czech Republic? And I highly doubt all of them thought this. Sounds like piss-poor journalism to me.

 

[Century867]

Muslims must be 'reconditioned' before being accepted into Islamic countries. It is important that they understand the values of the host nation. Muslims are generally honest, resourceful and devout people and except for the Salafi sect, most other Islamic sects are nonviolent. Just make sure they understand the ideals of the host culture and appreciate secular values. That in itself is quite a tough task and if they don't appreciate that, don't let them in.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

I don't think multiculturalism is working too well in Australia. While some people would advocate returning to an assimilation policy, IMO integration (the "melting pot") is the best way to go.

 

[Samson]

I belive that for long term stability the world most move towards free movement in the labour market. I do not think we could do it tommorrow, but in the long term I see no reason why the country in which you were born should dictate your employment prospects.

 

[HannibalBarka]

I'd welcome more Ukrainians, Slovaks, Poles, Vietnamese etc. in the Czech Republic, as long as they aren't Muslims.
About two weaks ago, the public TV channel broadcasted a documentary about the opinions of Czech Muslims - basically they all supported terrorism and Islamization of Europe (which is "natural" according to them ). They're dangerous, so they shouldn't be allowed to immigrate (and should be encouraged to emigrate ), or we end up like France or Netherlands.

Oh, don't dream man, You're faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from becoming like France or the Netherlands

 

[jamiethearcher]

I've worked with many illegals and am one myself. Though if the US doesn't change the laws this month in Congress, I'll leave to Canada. (Jamie, if you're really an immigration lawyer, I might seek professional service from you.) So I have a different perspective than some.

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I am still at law school in the US, so I won't be able to help you yet!

However, my long term plans are to go dual bar (NY and Ontario), so in a couple of years, if you still need to get into Canada, look me up, and i'll hook you up! lol.

 

[bhsup]

I'm all for legal immigrants of any race, religion, you name it, as long as they are willing to embrace American culture and not try to force my country to change to accomodate their differing cultures.

 

[Evil Tyrant]

I'm all for legal immigrants of any race, religion, you name it, as long as they are willing to embrace American culture and not try to force my country to change to accomodate their differing cultures.

That is pretty much my opinion of the matter as well.

 

[Urederra]

They have to learn it because it's spoken by the vast majority of U.S. citizens. It's also the universal language of the United States government including all documents and provided services.

So they should provide more documents written in spanish as well (many of them are). It should be against the law not to provide them, especially in New Mexico, California, Florida and other places where spanish has been spoken for longer time and before english.

And in some comunities spanish is the first language, not only by number of people who speak it but also because it was spoken before english. The oldest european city in the US, St. Augustine (Florida) has been a spanish speaking community since 1565. How do you even pretend to change that?

Mattbrown, Very good story of yours. Good luck with your studies.