Tani Coyote
Son of Huehuecoyotl
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 15,195
Nitpicking, guys. You all know what I mean. 
IOT Organisational and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Tee Kay
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2008
- Messages
- 14,928
I'm surprised I'm gone for a few days and this thread finally sees activity.
Though, I question anybody who says that IOT is not play to win. With each turn, you set goals and expectations with the purpose of improving your nation, no?
What? You can win Dwarf Fortress. People HAVE won Dwarf Fortress. The Boatmurdered Crew, Deathgate, etc. They won the game. They set an incredibly difficult goal, and met the goal.
You can win EU3. If you conquer the world with the Iroquois, you won. If you survive and prosper and turn Madagascar into a civilized secondary power in Victoria, you won. It isn't the SAME kind of victory we tend to think about after playing Civilization for so many years, but these games do have their own metavictories.
All in all, in a game with a dozen players like MP3, with each player setting goals to improve their nation, it gets to the point that improvement in score is relative. That's why building up your nation and knocking down your neighbor's is a valid tactic because if you beat them, you're farther ahead in the metascoreboard.
This is far more realistic than the idea of not playing to win. Nations don't sit around and weaken themselves to make the game more interesting, they take steps to improve their nation, which opens up new problems and new windows, which they continue to address. This goes on and on until they stop rising or fall, but they don't choose to stop improving.
The only way IOT could NOT be play-to-win is by removing players doing anything that can led to competition, including the game portion itself.
Though, I question anybody who says that IOT is not play to win. With each turn, you set goals and expectations with the purpose of improving your nation, no?
What? You can win Dwarf Fortress. People HAVE won Dwarf Fortress. The Boatmurdered Crew, Deathgate, etc. They won the game. They set an incredibly difficult goal, and met the goal.
You can win EU3. If you conquer the world with the Iroquois, you won. If you survive and prosper and turn Madagascar into a civilized secondary power in Victoria, you won. It isn't the SAME kind of victory we tend to think about after playing Civilization for so many years, but these games do have their own metavictories.
All in all, in a game with a dozen players like MP3, with each player setting goals to improve their nation, it gets to the point that improvement in score is relative. That's why building up your nation and knocking down your neighbor's is a valid tactic because if you beat them, you're farther ahead in the metascoreboard.
This is far more realistic than the idea of not playing to win. Nations don't sit around and weaken themselves to make the game more interesting, they take steps to improve their nation, which opens up new problems and new windows, which they continue to address. This goes on and on until they stop rising or fall, but they don't choose to stop improving.
The only way IOT could NOT be play-to-win is by removing players doing anything that can led to competition, including the game portion itself.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 4,131
So I'm thinking of launching (or at least heavily developing) a game over this spring. I wanna know what kinda game of two options the community wants to play more.
Option one: EU-styled IOT. Starts off in 1356, as the Golden Bull of 1356 is put into effect. Players start off on the European continent, able to choose from a variety of different countries from the great Kingdoms of Europe to a lower duchy of the Holy roman Empire to one of the Crusader States to one of the Muslim Kingdoms to one of the very few republics and so on. Basically, anything between the coast of Portugal to just east of the Urals, and the northern tip of Iceland to the regions of lower Egypt. As missions of discovery and/or events come up, the map will expand. Players will be able to choose countries that are discovered after the start as well, so you can switch to the Incas if you really want to play as them, after you discover them. Along with discovery, the game features colonization, dynastic expansion, many espionage options, nation-forming, and I'm going to try to think of a way to make trade interesting and very in-depth as well to name a few notable things.
Option two: HoI-styled IOT. Starts off in 1936, as tensions in Europe are beginning to rise again in anticipation of another World War. Players can choose a political party to play as within any country in the world. The ruling party manages the state, thus more gameplay options are made available to them such as global geopolitics, espionage actions against other nations, managing the wars, and more. The other parties have the initial goal of becoming the ruling party, and the political landscape of every nation is different. The NSDAP rules with an iron fist in Germany while the USA is much more politically diverse, thus can be more malleable. The games features extensive economy, espionage, and war mechanics; several kinds of resources have to be managed as well as actual trade routes, espionage missions are literally created by you, and the game features actual theatres of war that you have to draw up and make strategies for, taking into consideration the damage and toughness of individual units at times and will have to take terrain into consideration.
What do you guys think?
Option one: EU-styled IOT. Starts off in 1356, as the Golden Bull of 1356 is put into effect. Players start off on the European continent, able to choose from a variety of different countries from the great Kingdoms of Europe to a lower duchy of the Holy roman Empire to one of the Crusader States to one of the Muslim Kingdoms to one of the very few republics and so on. Basically, anything between the coast of Portugal to just east of the Urals, and the northern tip of Iceland to the regions of lower Egypt. As missions of discovery and/or events come up, the map will expand. Players will be able to choose countries that are discovered after the start as well, so you can switch to the Incas if you really want to play as them, after you discover them. Along with discovery, the game features colonization, dynastic expansion, many espionage options, nation-forming, and I'm going to try to think of a way to make trade interesting and very in-depth as well to name a few notable things.
Option two: HoI-styled IOT. Starts off in 1936, as tensions in Europe are beginning to rise again in anticipation of another World War. Players can choose a political party to play as within any country in the world. The ruling party manages the state, thus more gameplay options are made available to them such as global geopolitics, espionage actions against other nations, managing the wars, and more. The other parties have the initial goal of becoming the ruling party, and the political landscape of every nation is different. The NSDAP rules with an iron fist in Germany while the USA is much more politically diverse, thus can be more malleable. The games features extensive economy, espionage, and war mechanics; several kinds of resources have to be managed as well as actual trade routes, espionage missions are literally created by you, and the game features actual theatres of war that you have to draw up and make strategies for, taking into consideration the damage and toughness of individual units at times and will have to take terrain into consideration.
What do you guys think?
Mosher
Mushroom dad
hoi
5hoi
5hoi
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2010
- Messages
- 8,873
ilduce349
(Financial, Philo)
I might start an IOT soon, not sure. If I do make one, is there any particular preference for time period?
Ailedhoo
wonderer
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2012
- Messages
- 7,811
Depends on the kind of IOT.
Remember also the possibility of other world IOTs and genres as additional options.
ilduce349
(Financial, Philo)
I do consider Sci-Fi/The Future as a time period (though I would rather do one from the past). However I don't want to do a fantasy game mainly because I don't want to make a map. The advantage of setting it on earth is that I can just steal one of the many maps that has been used in a past IOT.
Ailedhoo
wonderer
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2012
- Messages
- 7,811
ilduce349
(Financial, Philo)
Hmmm, how was the HJ Map generated? The others are either hand drawn, the hex map looks like it was made from Civ V and one of them is from The Alpha Centuria computer game.
If there is some computer program I don't know of that can create randomly generated maps, that would be desirable. As I could then keep regenerating until I find one I like. (I am very picky when it comes to fantasy maps, normally for civ when I don't play the earth map I will enter world builder and reload 15+ times until I find a map I am satisfied with)
If there is some computer program I don't know of that can create randomly generated maps, that would be desirable. As I could then keep regenerating until I find one I like. (I am very picky when it comes to fantasy maps, normally for civ when I don't play the earth map I will enter world builder and reload 15+ times until I find a map I am satisfied with)
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
I am all in for the return of the Golden Bull.
Thorvald of Lym
A Little Sketchy
Gzz
Warlord
I have an idea : a IOT set in the Ancient Greece, and so far I had in mind this rule set, for now it lacks of military, diplomatic and NPC system, so I came here to see your suggetions about a simple and yet deep combat system :
Start : Each players starts out with 4 stacks of iron, 10 stacks of food, three regions and a oplithe unit.
Patron God : at the start of the game, each player choose a deity for his poleis. Each deity will give bonuses.
The deities are the following :
Zeus : Can call the Panellenics games each time the poleis wants to stop a war, and not only each four turns, the prices of the goods coming from other cities work shipping Zeus is reduced by 20 drachmas.
Ares : The ophlit units of the poleis work shipping Ares win the ties, no matter if defending or attacking, and each enemy unit killed gives a stack of iron.
Bacchus : Each stack of Wine cover 2 regions isnted of 1, in the maker, the poleis work shipping Bacchus pays 30 drachmas less than the normal ( minimum 10 ).
Athena / Apollo : Philosophy doesn’t cause revolts, each time a poleis's unit is killed, the poleis work shipping Athena receive a stack of iron.
Mercury : Every stack of any material sold by the poleis work shipping Mercury is sold at the double of the price, the food stacks of the poleis work shipping Mercury can't go below 1 (if depletes, the food is bought right off the bat without paying).
Hades : The poleis workshipping Hades gets 20 dracmes more from the Gold mines and doesen't pay anything if the Subterrean Oracle is built in a region hold by the poleis workshipping Hades.
The economics : each region gives a stack of food, 10 drachmas and 100 peltastis; some regions will have a kind of “special” resource, saw only there :
The As are the Gold : gold makes a region more profitable,e giving 30 drachmas instead of 10.
The Os are the Oil, the region with oil will give a stack of oil in addition to other stacks and soldiers received, the oil is used as secondary resource for better ophlites, as trading resource with other poleis or empires and as basic resource for the bigger boats.
The Is are the Iron, the region with Iron gives a stack of iron each turn, over to other stacks.
The Iron is used for create ophlites along with a stack of food.
The Ws are the Wine, the region containing wine will give a stack of Wine along with others stacks.
The Wine is used as basic stability control.
The Gs are the Grain : a region with Grain will give 3 stacks of food instead of 1, along with other stacks.
At the start of each turn, every poleis choose where send the stacks of Food, Wine and Oil : the mandatory Food stacks sending are calculated in this way =
1 compulsory for region holding + X ( where “X” is the number of military units in the region); if a Poleis gives more than the necessaries stacks of Food to a region, that region will give to the poleis's treasure 10 drachmas for each Food stack given. If the Food stack depletes and there are still regions not covered, the poleis will need to buy the stacks in the Market
The poleis must send a stack of wine in each conquered region ( not the claimed, the controlled) that they hold for less than two turns, if a poleis cannot send a sack of wine in the conquered region, that region will return to the possessor, or, if the possessor is killed, it will became a NPC; you can't send more than a stack of Wine in each region, but you can sell the wine at the market with a price that you decide.
The poleis must spend a stack of Oil for each Trireme fleet that holds, if cannot pay it, the Trireme fleet cannot be used; a poleis can spend a stack Oil for add a +1 to the combat roll where an Oplhit units is involved. The excess can be sold at the market with a price set by the vendor.
The Iron, over to be spent when a new Oplhit units is created, isn't sent into a region time to time, but it can still be sold at the desired price.
The Drachmas are used for buy the smaller fleets, pay mercenaries, build Great Buildings and pay the goods at the market.
Attack : the poleis can attack each other only after a formal declaration of war : every act of war undeclared in public WILL lower the prices of the offender.
Each unit has
Start : Each players starts out with 4 stacks of iron, 10 stacks of food, three regions and a oplithe unit.
Patron God : at the start of the game, each player choose a deity for his poleis. Each deity will give bonuses.
The deities are the following :
Zeus : Can call the Panellenics games each time the poleis wants to stop a war, and not only each four turns, the prices of the goods coming from other cities work shipping Zeus is reduced by 20 drachmas.
Ares : The ophlit units of the poleis work shipping Ares win the ties, no matter if defending or attacking, and each enemy unit killed gives a stack of iron.
Bacchus : Each stack of Wine cover 2 regions isnted of 1, in the maker, the poleis work shipping Bacchus pays 30 drachmas less than the normal ( minimum 10 ).
Athena / Apollo : Philosophy doesn’t cause revolts, each time a poleis's unit is killed, the poleis work shipping Athena receive a stack of iron.
Mercury : Every stack of any material sold by the poleis work shipping Mercury is sold at the double of the price, the food stacks of the poleis work shipping Mercury can't go below 1 (if depletes, the food is bought right off the bat without paying).
Hades : The poleis workshipping Hades gets 20 dracmes more from the Gold mines and doesen't pay anything if the Subterrean Oracle is built in a region hold by the poleis workshipping Hades.
The economics : each region gives a stack of food, 10 drachmas and 100 peltastis; some regions will have a kind of “special” resource, saw only there :
The As are the Gold : gold makes a region more profitable,e giving 30 drachmas instead of 10.
The Os are the Oil, the region with oil will give a stack of oil in addition to other stacks and soldiers received, the oil is used as secondary resource for better ophlites, as trading resource with other poleis or empires and as basic resource for the bigger boats.
The Is are the Iron, the region with Iron gives a stack of iron each turn, over to other stacks.
The Iron is used for create ophlites along with a stack of food.
The Ws are the Wine, the region containing wine will give a stack of Wine along with others stacks.
The Wine is used as basic stability control.
The Gs are the Grain : a region with Grain will give 3 stacks of food instead of 1, along with other stacks.
At the start of each turn, every poleis choose where send the stacks of Food, Wine and Oil : the mandatory Food stacks sending are calculated in this way =
1 compulsory for region holding + X ( where “X” is the number of military units in the region); if a Poleis gives more than the necessaries stacks of Food to a region, that region will give to the poleis's treasure 10 drachmas for each Food stack given. If the Food stack depletes and there are still regions not covered, the poleis will need to buy the stacks in the Market
The poleis must send a stack of wine in each conquered region ( not the claimed, the controlled) that they hold for less than two turns, if a poleis cannot send a sack of wine in the conquered region, that region will return to the possessor, or, if the possessor is killed, it will became a NPC; you can't send more than a stack of Wine in each region, but you can sell the wine at the market with a price that you decide.
The poleis must spend a stack of Oil for each Trireme fleet that holds, if cannot pay it, the Trireme fleet cannot be used; a poleis can spend a stack Oil for add a +1 to the combat roll where an Oplhit units is involved. The excess can be sold at the market with a price set by the vendor.
The Iron, over to be spent when a new Oplhit units is created, isn't sent into a region time to time, but it can still be sold at the desired price.
The Drachmas are used for buy the smaller fleets, pay mercenaries, build Great Buildings and pay the goods at the market.
Attack : the poleis can attack each other only after a formal declaration of war : every act of war undeclared in public WILL lower the prices of the offender.
Each unit has
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
The Japanomerican Dictatopublic of Germaniscant...
HOW RUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOW RUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2010
- Messages
- 8,873
@Thor: No Formatting Crew = No Game.
Spoiler :
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Yeah yeah, April Fools is fun. Unless the other guy gets PICKED ON!!! For that...
...NO CHEESE FOR EVERYONE!!!
...NO CHEESE FOR EVERYONE!!!
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
Spoiler :
If you don't start this I will start a riot.
Also, nice April Fools'.
Still March 31st here (11PM), AKA the only part of the world that matters to me.
Similar threads
