Iraq protests

[hobbsyoyo]

The effort is better spent trying to defeat him in the election.
Anything futile Trump turns into a campaign victory.

?
This is an ordinary vote, it's part of their day-to-day job to do this kind of thing. I see no way in which this vote by Congress interferes with any of the candidates running to beat Trump in the general election.

This is one of the biggest problems with the democrats. Its all smoke and mirrors and quite frankly its an insult to the intelligence of their constituents.

And you are insulting my intelligence with this post, so I guess it's even stevens?

 

[BCheek]

And you are insulting my intelligence with this post, so I guess it's even stevens?

What's your problem, seriously?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You said this vote is smoke and mirrors and that it is an insult to my intelligence as one of their constituents. Except I strongly support this move and reject the notion that it's smoke and mirrors. Do you see how your point could be interpreted as me being a dumb sheeple?

 

[rah]

I see no way in which this vote by Congress interferes with any of the candidates running to beat Trump in the general election.

I'm not that sure of that. It kind of makes them look like ineffective boobs who have taken their eyes off the ball.
They need to pass things that will embarrass the Repugs in the senate to ignore or the President to Veto.
Just what that is may not be clear, but this isn't one of them. Trump will just laugh it off and spout from his podium that they can't make him do anything.

 

[BCheek]

You said this vote is smoke and mirrors and that it is an insult to my intelligence as one of their constituents. Except I strongly support this move and reject the notion that it's smoke and mirrors. Do you see how your point could be interpreted as me being a dumb sheeple?

I think you're reading into it too much and injecting meaning that's not there. Specifically about yourself, since my comment was in response to someone else's post and was directed at the democrat party leaders.

 

[Berzerker]

Jesus, Iran's general gets killed then 50 people die in a stampede at his funeral and 180 people die when they shoot down their own airliner

can we please just leave the freaking middle east?

 

[Tristan_C]

Drunt caused that plane to get shot down by not shipping Iran a pallet of cash

 

[red_elk]

Interesting that Tor (SA-15) is a short range SAM, designed for defense mostly against helicopters and cruise missiles.
Civilian plane at ~10 km range should have very big radar signature, it should be hard to mistake it for cruise missile.

 

[El_Machinae]

I don't think our representatives should stop trying to reign in an insane executive just because their efforts can be blocked. I know it's futile. I know it's almost an empty gesture. It is still the right thing to do and I feel it's necessary.

Vetoing a restriction on his powers would be classic Trump sickness

 

[Estebonrober]

If this is what the educated populace is saying it’s sad to think of what the majority not paying attention thinks.

I’m with you @hobbsyoyo. I think it’s important to keep passing things. It didn’t seem to hurt republicans with their base to repeal Obamacare 74 times or whatever it was and by election time the centrists didn’t consider it a big deal they tried to kill millions for fun.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Interesting that Tor (SA-15) is a short range SAM, designed for defense mostly against helicopters and cruise missiles.
Civilian plane at ~10 km range should have very big radar signature, it should be hard to mistake it for cruise missile.

Expecting a blitz with nervous trigger fingers and/or too reliant on the technology. 30 years ago a US ship's AEGIS system mistook a climbing Iranian airliner for an attacking F-14 in a eerily similar incident.

 

[Cheetah]

The US probably needs Congress to reclaim its powers in general, but I'm somewhat unsure if a bill that only limits the President with respect to Iran is any good... What happens next time Iran attacks the US through it's proxies, and claims it wasn't them? Will Congress literally have to vote to approve the US striking back?

Anyways, I stand by my earlier comments: Trump might have done this for all the wrong reasons, and it probably wasn't legal, but it definitely was the morally and strategically smart thing to do.

+ Soleimani is dead. Huge pluss.
+ A couple of other murderers died with him.
+ Iran is too afraid to actually strike back, and simply put out fireworks to save face.
+ Iran told it's militias and terroist groups to stand down for the time being.
- Iran-backed militias have killed about 30 Syrians in retaliation.
- 56 people died during the funeral of Soleimani – hopefully only willing participants.
- Iranian air defense screwed up and killed 176 passengers.
+ Iran screwed up and literally admitted that they're behind multiple rebel and terrorist groups.

IRGC is now straight up embarrassing their proxies and militias that spent years convincing us they are not Iranian proxies. In a press conf today, they had the flags of Hiznollah, Kataeb Hizbollah, Houthis among others.

 

[Kyriakos]

The US probably needs Congress to reclaim its powers in general, but I'm somewhat unsure if a bill that only limits the President with respect to Iran is any good... What happens next time Iran attacks the US through it's proxies, and claims it wasn't them? Will Congress literally have to vote to approve the US striking back?

Anyways, I stand by my earlier comments: Trump might have done this for all the wrong reasons, and it probably wasn't legal, but it definitely was the morally and strategically smart thing to do.

+ Soleimani is dead. Huge pluss.
+ A couple of other murderers died with him.
+ Iran is too afraid to actually strike back, and simply put out fireworks to save face.
+ Iran told it's militias and terroist groups to stand down for the time being.
- Iran-backed militias have killed about 30 Syrians in retaliation.
- 56 people died during the funeral of Soleimani – hopefully only willing participants.
- Iranian air defense screwed up and killed 176 passengers.
+ Iran screwed up and literally admitted that they're behind multiple rebel and terrorist groups.

Hm, why did you put the plane crash there? If it was caused as part of the anxiety triggered by Trump, surely you do get how it makes Trump's assassination of Sol even worse, right?
I mean I get they are iranians, but maybe pretend their lives are equal to westerners.

 

[Hrothbern]

+ Iran screwed up and literally admitted that they're behind multiple rebel and terrorist groups.

At kneejerk level I see such flag exhibitions of "togetherness" as a sign of weakness. More (pipe) dreams and pretenses than actual power.
Not that differing actually from all the flags for example at a G7.meeting.

Considering the situation Iran is NOW, the successor going public NOW with all those flags...
I see this more as a claiming move: that Esmael Qaani publicly claiming ownership of those groups with isolating those groups.

 

[uppi]

The US probably needs Congress to reclaim its powers in general, but I'm somewhat unsure if a bill that only limits the President with respect to Iran is any good... What happens next time Iran attacks the US through it's proxies, and claims it wasn't them? Will Congress literally have to vote to approve the US striking back?

The way I am reading this, the US government has submitted a report of what it is doing and then would have a number of days to cease the activities described in the report and withdraw the forces engaging the enemy. But the US government has already ceased these activities and has no forces in Iran which could be withdrawn. Any new action could just be presented as a new set of activities which are necessary to respond against newly emerged threats. So unless there is a continuous war going on, the resolution does nothing. And if the US government is trying to start a war, 30 days is enough to bring it to a point where no Congress would dare to stop it.

And that is assuming the US government adheres to the law or could somehow be held responsible for violating the law.

Anyways, I stand by my earlier comments: Trump might have done this for all the wrong reasons, and it probably wasn't legal, but it definitely was the morally and strategically smart thing to do.

+ Soleimani is dead. Huge pluss.
+ A couple of other murderers died with him.
+ Iran is too afraid to actually strike back, and simply put out fireworks to save face.
+ Iran told it's militias and terroist groups to stand down for the time being.
- Iran-backed militias have killed about 30 Syrians in retaliation.
- 56 people died during the funeral of Soleimani – hopefully only willing participants.
- Iranian air defense screwed up and killed 176 passengers.
+ Iran screwed up and literally admitted that they're behind multiple rebel and terrorist groups.

If I may extend the list:
- the US has lost quite some diplomatic reputation here (you know it's bad when even the UK distances itself from the attack)
- the US government has openly threatened with terrorist attacks and thus validated propaganda accusing them of terrorism
- the Iranian hardliners have been strengthened by this and any reformers will have a much harder time now
- the Iraqi government has decided to throw out US troops. If adhered, Iran will have pretty much free reign in Iraq.

To the less bloodthirsty this looks like a huge strategic blunder.

 

[choxorn]

- 56 people died during the funeral of Soleimani – hopefully only willing participants.

I guess 56 people dying just isn't all that bad if they were all supporters of Soleimani, amirite?

 

[civvver]

Hm, why did you put the plane crash there? If it was caused as part of the anxiety triggered by Trump, surely you do get how it makes Trump's assassination of Sol even worse, right?
I mean I get they are iranians, but maybe pretend their lives are equal to westerners.

I guess 56 people dying just isn't all that bad if they were all supporters of Soleimani, amirite?

Guys those are not bullet points, they are pluses and minuses. The people dying were all minuses.

 

[Hrothbern]

Trump pondering aloud on the future peace construction in the Middle-East:

President Donald Trump on Thursday proposed expanding NATO's membership to include Middle Eastern nations in light of recent U.S. tensions in the region with Iran.

At the White House Thursday, Trump revealed how much thought he’d been putting into the issue, debuting his ideal name for the new initiative.

“NATO, right, and then you have M-E, Middle East,” he told reporters excitedly, writing in the air with his fingers. “You call it NATO-ME. What a beautiful name. I'm good at names.”
The president, who has often boasted about his branding prowess, suggested that it would catch on like the abbreviation for the renegotiated trade deal with Mexico and Canada, the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement.
“USMCA, like the song “YMCA,’” Trump exclaimed. “No one could remember it, USMCA. I said, think of the song: ‘YMCA.’ Now everybody says it.”
Returning to the matter at hand, he explained: “No, uh, if you add the two words, Middle East, at the end of it, because that's a big problem. That’s a big source of problems. And NATO-ME, doesn’t that work beautifully Jon? ‘NATO’ plus ‘ME.’”
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-plus-me-donald-trump-proposes-nato-expansion-into-middle-east/

Adding SA and Israel in the NATO ???

 

[choxorn]

Guys those are not bullet points, they are pluses and minuses. The people dying were all minuses.

Fair enough, I didn't realize that at first, but he kind of says it in a way that implies it's not that big of a deal, even if it is bad.

 

[Cheetah]

At kneejerk level I see such flag exhibitions of "togetherness" as a sign of weakness. More (pipe) dreams and pretenses than actual power.
Not that differing actually from all the flags for example at a G7.meeting.

Considering the situation Iran is NOW, the successor going public NOW with all those flags...
I see this more as a claiming move: that Esmael Qaani publicly claiming ownership of those groups with isolating those groups.

Doesn't that make it rather more awkward for Iran the next time those groups attack?