Is a wet sponge the equivalent of water?

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Even if he/she drops education in favour of, say, professional sports to make a lot more money than he/she could ever made with the education?

Yes, because you don't get educated to make money. You get educated to fill your brain with something that gives you a fuller life.

If you made a football player sit quietly in a blank room for 3 hours - all alone with only his brain for company - I doubt he'd have much to think about or occupy himself with.

It's not just schooling... Life experiences can give you a lot to think about too, but I doubt someone who went straight from college to MLB has led much of a life.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Yes, because you don't get educated to make money. You get educated to fill your brain with something that gives you a fuller life.

Says who?

If you made a football player sit quietly in a blank room for 3 hours - all alone with only his brain for company - I doubt he'd have much to think about or occupy himself with.

If you want people to handle that sort of torture, you don't give them an education, you teach them to meditate. It's faster and cheaper.

 

[bhsup]

Yes, of course, they call themselves intellectuals. You know, these people who read a lot of books about how communism is such a great idea but they are not capable of look at the history, judge and reach their own conclusions. That is why they are fond of citing those books so much.

We have some eminent examples around.

Urederra, did you ever know that you're my hero?

I've known people who never finished high school, but have a (thank you, Aaron Tippin) a working man's PhD and more common sense about how the world works and how to survive in it than some highly educated types who look down their noses at the less educated, but couldn't change the oil in their car to save their life.

Education has nothing to do with intelligence.

 

[ShannonCT]

Education equates with intelligence by the equation:

E_n = a₁ + a₂i_n + a₃i_n² + e_n

If you have to ask what this means, you need more education (or intelligence).

 

[Bill3000]

I've known people who never finished high school, but have a (thank you, Aaron Tippin) a working man's PhD and more common sense about how the world works and how to survive in it than some highly educated types who look down their noses at the less educated, but couldn't change the oil in their car to save their life.

Common sense is overrated, and is often wrong when detailing the world. It also has nothing to do with intelligence - it's wisdom. Besides, those highly educated types may not know how to change the oil in their cars, but they damn well know how it works, compared to the common man who can't comprehend thermodynamics to save his life.

Education doesn't equate with intelligence because education has different standards than intelligence - education is much less of a matter of intelligence and more of a matter of effort. It's the reason why A's don't matter much in High school as a measure of intelligence - because it only means that you do your work, not that you're intelligent. The fact that the person flunked high school just means that the person failed life, not that he's not intelligent, because intelligence is not a requirement for passing high school; diligence is.

On the flip side, having high education doesn't mean you're smart, because a high education normally means that you're specialized. A simple example would be people with a high education who don't have a clue about science - because his studies didn't offer a chance to know anything about it.

It has nothing to do with common sense - just that people with a high education level can be ignorant of critical areas of academia. At the same time, intelligence is not the only factor of respectability.

 

[Narz]

Love the thread title.

Education is not intelligence. Filling your head with information is no substitute for natural intelligence.

Obviously relevant job training is important. I'd rather have a dumb but well trained employee than a smart but uneducated one.

The most important education is the ability to think critically, recognize patterns and make decisions. Also learning to see thru deception (extra important in today's world). What passes for education is grade school and high school (memorizing trivia) is a poor use of the mind.

Someone with a PHD has a certain education, someone playing profressional sports has a very different education, someone who decided to become an organic farmer has a third education. Ask the average American who is "more educated" and they'll probably say the first guy. However, that opinion is completely subjective. In this culture most people seem to value abstract and theoretical knowledge over practical knowledge which is completely backwards IMO.

 

[Grisu]

Yes, because you don't get educated to make money. You get educated to fill your brain with something that gives you a fuller life.

If you made a football player sit quietly in a blank room for 3 hours - all alone with only his brain for company - I doubt he'd have much to think about or occupy himself with.

It's not just schooling... Life experiences can give you a lot to think about too, but I doubt someone who went straight from college to MLB has led much of a life.

that strikes me as rather arrogant. Leading a full live is not dependent on how much education you got, but on how happy you are with what you do. If somebody is happy with working outdoors, as a gardener for example, why should he get himself a university degree? I seriously doubt that deciding to do what you love makes you 'stupid'.
Furthermore you don't have to go to university to 'fill your brain'.

 

[pboily]

One would have to be uneducated to think that educated people who think they are intelligent do so because of their education.

For the most part, wouldn't educated people who think they are intelligent think they are educated because they are intelligent?

Say these two sentences quickly 5 times and win a prize!

 

[puglover]

Absolutely not. A person can have the entire alphabet behind his name but still be a closed-minded idiot.

Besides, those highly educated types may not know how to change the oil in their cars, but they damn well know how it works, compared to the common man who can't comprehend thermodynamics to save his life.

This just reinforces the point that different sorts of equal intelligence are meant for different situations. A mechanic would probably live if he got lost and his car broke down. I'd put less money on the PhD in Thermodynamics.

 

[Bill3000]

This just reinforces the point that different sorts of equal intelligence are meant for different situations. A mechanic would probably live if he got lost and his car broke down. I'd put less money on the PhD in Thermodynamics.

Yes, but relatively speaking, mechanics are a dime a dozen. You can just call a mechanic if your car breaks down. You can't say the same thing for a PhD in Thermodynamics.

As for its applicability, for the example given, Thermodynamics is probably the most applicable science, ever - actually what I said was a bad example, since someone who has a PhD in thermodynamics will surely know how to fix a car engine, given the fact that cars are almost entirely based on Thermo.

Regardless, value-wise, the PhD is more valuable per capita than the mechanic, because said PhD has to go through more extensive training, and in general requires a substantial amount of effort as well as a requirement of a particular level of academic intelligence. The mechanic may be more useful in everyday life, but life isn't just "everyday". Common sense quickly breaks down when trying to use it to rigorously define anything.

The mechanic would be nothing without the scientist or engineer, because cars wouldn't have existed if either of them did not exist. We'd have no construction of cars if we didn't have engineers to design them, and we'd have no knowledge of how cars work if we didn't have scientists to research the fundamental concepts of it. The mechanic only does the simple work, and while the simple work is still important, it isn't as critical as the complex work.

 

[LucyDuke]

EDIT: 5 people voted yes...? WTH?

Those people may be very highly educated...

 

[Bill3000]

Those people may be very highly educated...

*shrug* I didn't vote yes.

 

[Mise]

Those people may be very highly educated...

*shrug* I didn't vote yes.

I did...

I was surprised that more people didn't vote yes, given the obvious link between level of intelligence and level of education.

I think most people are completely missing the point. We all know that education isn't the ONLY factor in determining intelligence, but if someone has a PhD in Electronic Engineering, he is clearly a very intelligent person. Anyone who insists otherwise is just kidding themselves, tbh...

 

[Lotus49]

One time I was playing chess with someone who gave up in disgust because I was beating him so bad. I was just a few moves away from checkmating him. As a lark, I asked another person nearby if he wanted to finish the game for him, and this guy, completely cold, after studying the board for just a couple of minutes, checkmated me in like 3 moves Thats intelligence. The ability to recognize patterns and relationships, and I dont think it has anything at all to do with education. It cant be taught, its an innate trait, ability.

I must concur with this point of view. The ability to deeply calculate, almost at a subconscious level to solve complicated puzzles with impressive results, seemingly on instinct.

For example, a true 'test' (as in, an actual academic exercise) of intelligence is one that explores your innate problem solving abilities. You feel as though you're just stumbling through the test, but meanwhile it is actually measuring what you are capable of, whether you realize it or not.

I have a superb track record with such tests, while at the same time my education level is practically pathetic (I do not necessarily like learning... purely for the sake of learning, adding 'data to my harddisk', as someone mentioned). However, *I* am that guy - that can sit down and pickup the game of chess, and beat you. The more deeply complicated & sophisticated the game, though - the more I shine (chess is just about planning ahead: if A: then 1,2,3,4.... if B: then 1,2,3,4, etc. -It's too linear, and boring).

I guess... God help you all the day I finally attain a high level of education. What is this? An ego? On Easter?! This can't be right. I digress...

Anyhow, the ability to intuitively figure things out in the world around you is much more valuable than some random intellect sitting in a library, accumulating trivia.

For example, the bookworm reads to the point where he needs glasses. And due to his shaving every morning, he replaces his razor blades very frequently. Conversely, the sharper mind doesn't read the writings of others, because he finds them boring, and dry - little to gain. Yet, he needs glasses anyway. Though, he figures out a way to maintain 20/20 - because of sheer insight as to how the body works (and therefore how to naturally maintain it). And, he also figures out a way to make razor blades last about as long as he wants them to. -Small examples.

 

[Bill3000]

I think most people are completely missing the point. We all know that education isn't the ONLY factor in determining intelligence, but if someone has a PhD in Electronic Engineering, he is clearly a very intelligent person. Anyone who insists otherwise is just kidding themselves, tbh...

Well, the question was "Do you equate level of education with intelligence", not "is level of education a factor of intelligence". As well, there are some people that disagree with you - look at the posters above. As well, the problem is that people are defining intelligence differently.

For example, the bookworm reads to the point where he needs glasses. And due to his shaving every morning, he replaces his razor blades very frequently. Conversely, the sharper mind doesn't read the writings of others, because he finds them boring, and dry - little to gain. Yet, he needs glasses anyway. Though, he figures out a way to maintain 20/20 - because of sheer insight as to how the body works (and therefore how to naturally maintain it). And, he also figures out a way to make razor blades last about as long as he wants them to. -Small examples.

Common sense is not intelligence. It may be something to be respected, but it's not the same thing as intellectual capability. It doesn't take much abstract thinking to do that stuff.

 

[Mise]

Well, the question was "Do you equate level of education with intelligence", not "is level of education a factor of intelligence". As well, there are some people that disagree with you - look at the posters above. As well, the problem is that people are defining intelligence differently.

They're just kidding themselves... I don't have anything further to say...

(Also, education => intelligence. I don't know what "equate" means in this context, but that's what I took it to mean.)

 

[Lotus49]

Well, the question was "Do you equate level of education with intelligence", not "is level of education a factor of intelligence". As well, there are some people that disagree with you - look at the posters above. As well, the problem is that people are defining intelligence differently.

I was responding (strongly in agreement) to Bozo Erectus's comment which I quoted. I found the rest of the thread boring. But I'm fully aware of what it's about.

Common sense is not intelligence. It may be something to be respected, but it's not the same thing as intellectual capability. It doesn't take much abstract thinking to do that stuff.

Well, it's not so common... the small-time ingenuity in which I gave a couple of small examples. Some rise higher than 'common'. But regardless, to the point of 'abstract thinking', I'm with you there; I did in fact mention "The ability to deeply calculate, almost at a subconscious level to solve complicated puzzles with impressive results, seemingly on instinct", also "innate problem solving abilities", as well as "the ability to intuitively figure things out in the world around you is much more valuable"... all along the lines of what you say "is not the same thing" as true, admirable, genuine 'intellectual capacity'. I say they tend to go hand-in-hand. Either the light is bright, or not quite so. But indeed, there are different classifications of intelligence, such as school/academic ability, creative ability, etc. Why is it, that the tests which attempt to probe deep into your mind's true potential, seem to focus on sophisticated problem solving? They don't ask, "What is the Newtonian principle of blah blah XYZ", they present a complex puzzle - that simply takes higher than average brainpower to solve. -That's what I was getting at. Basically, how easily, quickly and efficiently is your mind able to intuitively solve, speculate, scheme, etc. in various (perhaps abstract) scenarios compared to others'? That's exactly what you seem to be getting at, which is essentially the same as I intended. I never claimed to be the best communicator.

There are different areas of ability, and different ways to classify 'high intellectual ability'. Who is to say one is more elite than another? A pure left-brained mathematician and theoretical scientist, such as Einstein (and there are so many others), who are able to understand their (math/science) field so much more deeply than than the vast majority... are they 'the smartest'? Perhaps it depends on one's ability to appreciate all areas of intelligence. Indeed, I'd like to have seen Einstein attempt to sculpt Michelangelo's Pietà, or compose Bach's Toccata and Fugue, or even the undeniable 'intellectual capacity' it requires to control my ID's namesake on the absolute limit, such as the great Jimmy Clark.

Again, now in THIS thread, I remind you - that one type is not master of the universe. And if they were truly 'wise', they would realize that.

Btw, there's another thread, about 'reality'. This one, is far from it... delving deep into one of the most subjective topics one can bring up. So, don't sit there and tell me, "I'm wrong", because I wished to express/concur in my own point of view to what was previously said by another.

 

[LucyDuke]

I was surprised that more people didn't vote yes, given the obvious link between level of intelligence and level of education.

I think that a lot of people are interpreting the question a little differently. The question "Does education equate with intelligence?" is the same question as "Are education and intelligence the same thing?", the way I read it. I said this same thing the other day - they certainly relate, but they do not equate. If this is the way most people read the question, I'd be surprised if someone were surprised at the answers. It seems pretty obvious to me that education and intelligence are not the same thing - in this wording, they do not equate.

The OP's two questions go in opposite directions, so I'm not sure if there's a clear cue there.

 

[Adamb0mb]

Lotus49,

Common sense, rationale, and intuition are all valuable traits but I think you undervalue education.

To get the most out of your intellectual potential, book learning can be vital. You seem to be very dismissive of the 'Newtonian principle of blah blah XYZ' and Einstein but if you are as smart as you say you are I believe you would find this material challenging and immensely satisfying once you gain comprehension.

Think of the brain less as a hard drive and more as a muscle. It flourishes when it is pushed and stressed, and physics (Newton/Einstein) is a great exercise.

as well as important to get a fundamental understanding of how things work.

 

[Lotus49]

Lotus49,

Common sense, rationalle, and intuition are all valuable traits but I think you undervalue education.

To get the most out of your intellectual potential book learning can be vital. You seem to be very dismissive of the 'Newtonian principle of blah blah XYZ' and Einstein but if you are as smart as you say you are I believe you would find this material challenging and immensely satisfying once you gain comprehension. Think of the brain less as a hard drive and more as a muscle. It flouroushes when it is pushed and stressed, and physics (Newton/Einstein) is a great excercise.

I hope so. I'm going to embark upon my own, personal intellectual renaissance soon, as I finally begin taking some college courses, in the long haul towards a master's degree(s) in my field (aviation), so I can advance into an improved career path. I will admit I've felt like the 'guy that's not invited to the party', in the presence of college students/grads for some time, but often their own condescending attitudes have not helped.

Plus, I come from a long line of people that have been exceedingly successful (entrepreneurs), none of them ever setting foot in a college - except, ironically, to be guest speakers at them. That, and it's actually taken me 10 years after graduating high school to finally realize that higher education is just something I can't go without any longer, if I'm to reach a position in life that I feel is worthy of my intellect & potential.

"You just need to have the piece of paper". Plus, I'm sure there's more to it. The more knowledge you have, the more you can piece other things together, that you might not be able to otherwise. What can I say - I just wasn't hungry for academic knowledge in my youth. Only now, have I settled down and started to appreciate that it's a vital piece in the overall intellectual pie/pyramid, that is inevitably essential to attain. It's not the cornerstone, though. No one explained this to me earlier - in fact they said I didn't need it (based on family history).

Btw, in all the IQ tests I ever took, I remember 'school ability' was always the strongest category in the results. So, we'll see...