Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Arakhor]

I'm not sure why she needs to mention that she's not "planning" on holding another GE until the legally appointed time, as it would take Parliamentary action to change the date these days. But yes, that is a ridiculously long time, especially with our new unelected overlady* soon to take up the reins. Didn't we leave the EU to avoid this sort of thing anyway?

* That is a very silly word and likely to be the last time I ever use it.

 

[FriendlyFire]

But for the UK referendum on the EU itself, his contribution was negative.

The people who voted Leave did not do so because of him. I am 60 and older than
him but find his style old fashioned (rather like that of car salesmen 30 years ago)
and reminiscent of those now in their 80s. I think that his style scared off many
liberal and metropolitan and younger voters into voting for Remain. How can I put
this politely. Probably not at all. So brutal it is. If he had stepped in front of the
Clapham omnibus last Christmas, the Remain vote would've been much smaller.

About 1/3rd of Leave voted mainly on the issue of immigration
Which is ironic since the UK sets it own immigration policies to non-EU citizens and basically nothing will change. Unless of course Leavers which to block movement of EU Citizens ?

Hard Evidence: how areas with low immigration voted mainly for Brexit

33% stated their main reason for voting Leave was because it “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders”. In addition, 81% of Leave voters regarded multiculturalism and 80% regarded immigration as “forces for ill”, compared to 19% and 20% of Remain voters respectively.

It has long been observed by commentators in the media and in academia that areas where residents are most likely to oppose immigration – such as Thanet, where Nigel Farage campaigned for parliament in 2015 – tend also to have the least direct experiences of it.

Areas with a predominance of anti-immigrant sentiment are commonly characterised by long-term structural factors, resulting in low wages, low levels of education and high unemployment, alongside relative ethnic and cultural homogeneity.

socio-economic characteristics occurred in places with a predominantly white British population, that the Leave vote was strongest. So where migrants were not present, it appears they were held partly to blame for the all-too-real, but much deeper-seated, economic difficulties experienced by locals.

http://theconversation.com/hard-evi...low-immigration-voted-mainly-for-brexit-62138

 

[Takhisis]

‘Overlady’ sounds as if Theresa May were suddenly going to get very naughty and wear a dominatrix outfit.

I saw Theresa May talking about how she wouldn't plan on holding a general election until 2020. Is it me, or does that seem like a really long time given how divisive Brexit negotiations are inevitably going to be. I get that Labour's been so busy collapsing they haven't really had time to get into the post-Brexit debate but negotiating your way out of a 40 year union with serious political, financial, and social long term ramifications seems like something you would want a unity/ coalition government for rather than a party lead by a leader who didn't receive a mandate in the general election.

Ajidica, no sitting Conservative politician would hold a general election right now. They framed their leadership contest as a referendum and lost it; they know they cannot win this twice.

 

[Arakhor]

What, naughtier even than her career in the Home Office?

 

[Takhisis]

The horror… the horror…

but yes.

 

[Ajidica]

I'm not sure why she needs to mention that she's not "planning" on holding another GE until the legally appointed time, as it would take Parliamentary action to change the date these days. But yes, that is a ridiculously long time, especially with our new unelected overlady* soon to take up the reins. Didn't we leave the EU to avoid this sort of thing anyway?

* That is a very silly word and likely to be the last time I ever use it.

Wait, you are telling me that the UK is going to go through Brexit negotiations and invoke Article 50 with a government whose position at the last general election was "eh, it could be better" toward the EU?

Anyhow, how is Theresa May thought of in the UK? The impression I have gotten is that she is falls solidly into the "fear" side of Machiavelli's "feared or loved" setup.

Sort of like this, actually:
(Minor swearing)

Link to video.

 

[Takhisis]

Yep, feared. She hasn't got much charisma and she has enacted several harmful policies. But she's a Tory, so you should know that already.

 

[really]

She made a lunging leer at me in Maidenhead train station once.

I side stepped her.

 

[Arakhor]

Wait, you are telling me that the UK is going to go through Brexit negotiations and invoke Article 50 with a government whose position at the last general election was "eh, it could be better" toward the EU?

Better yet, I'd imagine that she'd be one of the first in line to repeal the Human Right Acts if she'd had a chance, given her various comments about the rights of deportees over the years. I was expecting her to support Leave, but presumably she wanted to keep her job instead.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Yep, feared. She hasn't got much charisma and she has enacted several harmful policies.

Basically a scary Merkel ?

 

[Kyriakos]

I saw Theresa May talking about how she wouldn't plan on holding a general election until 2020. Is it me, or does that seem like a really long time given how divisive Brexit negotiations are inevitably going to be. I get that Labour's been so busy collapsing they haven't really had time to get into the post-Brexit debate but negotiating your way out of a 40 year union with serious political, financial, and social long term ramifications seems like something you would want a unity/ coalition government for rather than a party lead by a leader who didn't receive a mandate in the general election.

It is strange, yes. Moreover it is somewhat Utterly anti-democratic. The public did not elect her, they elected a bloke who likes putting his knob inside dead pigs' mouths.

I must say, old chap, Britain is not handling this whole brexit business very well.

 

[Gigaz]

The interesting question is probably, how serious is Theresa May about leaving on a scale from "Haha No way" to "Britain wants to leave and I'm going to deliver, whatever it takes".
If she wants to derail the Brexit while officially supporting it, she can probably do that.

 

[Takhisis]

She made a lunging leer at me in Maidenhead train station once.

I side stepped her.

Glé mhath.

Basically a scary Merkel ?

Yes… Merkel is someone who really believes her political theories/setups will lead to a better world (even if it's obvious, by now, that they don't).

Theresa May neither is nor tries to be a sympathetic person. As with the rest of her party, her aim is to make the rich richer and, if the poor get something out of it, it's a bit of a bonus.

 

[EnglishEdward]

About 1/3rd of Leave voted mainly on the issue of immigration

Which means that for the other 2/3 of Leave voters,
immigration was not the main issue.

Which is ironic since the UK sets it own immigration policies to non-EU citizens and basically nothing will change.

If "nothing will change" means the number of EU immigrants will remain much the
same, most Leavers will see that as a satisfactory result. It is really not about
expelling the immigrants, it is about not holding the door open for unlimited numbers.

The UK would not, if remaining in the EU, be able to continue setting our immigration
policy to non EU migrants for three reasons.

Firstly the EU would standardise on that as part of general policy of standardisation.

Secondly, until then would be immigrants would shop around and immigrate to the
member state which is easiest and then acquire naturalisation state in the member
state that is easiest and then having acquired naturalisation there'd be no legal
impediment to them migrating to the UK.

Thirdly sooner or later the Greeks will wise up and realise that the solution to their
problem with the foreign arrivals is to grant all refuges and immigrants Greek
citizenship and then give them bus/train tickets to Berlin or Paris. (If the refugee deal
with Turkey goes through, expect all those Syrians to be quickly granted Turkish
nationality, afterall Syria was part of the Ottoman empire, and travel around the EU.)

Unless of course Leavers which to block movement of EU Citizens ?

The concern is not the movements; it is about granting rights to work, have
council housing, benefits in the UK etc to untold millions and millions of EU nationals.

Hard Evidence: how areas with low immigration voted mainly for Brexit

It is easy to cherry pick quotations. I can do it too.

For instance, Boston in Lincolnshire has a great number of EU immigrants
working in the horticultural industry and yet the vote was:

Boston
Leave 75.6% 22,974 VOTES
Remain 24.4% 7,430 VOTES

 

[Takhisis]

*gapes at post above*

 

[EnglishEdward]

Anyhow, how is Theresa May thought of in the UK?

Vaguely confident as a minister.

Bad points:

Failed to stand up to (30%+) Treasury cuts for the UK Borders Agency.
This resulted in delays to wealthy Americans who complained, instead
sacked her head of UK Borders when he let Americans passengers from
planes from USA go through passport control with their passports unchecked.

Good Points:

She stood up to US government demands to deport UK citizens to be made
an example of for demonstrating their lack of IT security by hacking them.


Interesting Points

She is married but has no children.

Not so popular with lesbians as she made spanking and facesitting porn illegal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...al-acts-now-banned-in-British-porn-films.html

 

[Arakhor]

Which means that for the other 2/3 of Leave voters, immigration was not the main issue.

Don't you think it's frankly shocking that over five million people apparently voted based on immigration? There's going to be many, many disappointed people if they don't get what they want and probably millions more if they do.

Not so popular with lesbians as she made spanking and facesitting porn illegal.

I wasn't aware you were so well-versed in lesbian erotica, Edward.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Which means that for the other 2/3 of Leave voters,
immigration was not the main issue.

Which means that the Leave campaign won on lies. Were not talking about exaggerations or castle in the sky promises, this was an out right lie
The EU acted as a convenient scapegoat for political reasons and the underlining facts dont actually reassemble reality

Firstly the EU would standardise on that as part of general policy of standardisation.

Secondly, until then would be immigrants would shop around and immigrate to the
member state which is easiest and then acquire naturalisation state in the member
state that is easiest and then having acquired naturalisation there'd be no legal
impediment to them migrating to the UK.

Thirdly sooner or later the Greeks will wise up and realise that the solution to their
problem with the foreign arrivals is to grant all refuges and immigrants Greek
citizenship and then give them bus/train tickets to Berlin or Paris. (If the refugee deal
with Turkey goes through, expect all those Syrians to be quickly granted Turkish
nationality, afterall Syria was part of the Ottoman empire, and travel around the EU.)

1) As a member state of the EU, the UK can veto or block any changes to EU immigration laws it dose not like, NO WAIT !

2) Your against the EU setting Naturalization laws and you are against EU countries setting their own naturalization laws ?
As I explained before EC laws require unanimous vote for member EU countries, so even 1 country can veto laws, thats why the EU is so slow at coming to a consensus and dealing with a crisis. Its hard for the EU to pass new laws.

3) Who do you think is stopping Turkey from joining the EU ? Certain Balkan countries will veto the EU policy for new member states as per EU law. But you knew that right ?
EU citizenship allows free movement nothing else, such as healthcare education or any welfare. Each EU country sets there own laws as per sovereign nations, Uk could set a very high fees for using Healthcare for example to EU citizens
If Greece was stupid enough to try this, it would end up with 60k Syria of Greek citizenship within its own borders as well as inviting even more refugees into Greece. As EU countries Austria, Bulgaria and Macedonia had unilaterally shut down their borders.

 

[Yeekim]

@FF
I suggest you brush up your knowledge on what freedom of movement in EU entails and also how the Council votes, as your above post sadly contains a lot of nonsense.

 

[FriendlyFire]

@FF
I suggest you brush up your knowledge on what freedom of movement in EU entails and also how the Council votes, as your above post sadly contains a lot of nonsense.

Interesting, The UK did try an exercise its veto power and was simply excluded from the new EU treaties.

European Elections: Explaining the mysterious British veto

It depends what you mean by veto. You could argue we have three different kinds; on the other hand, you could argue we have none.

Day-to-day policy decisions in the EU are taken by member governments sitting in the Council of Ministers. Decisions in most areas are supposed to be taken by 'qualified' majority vote; in other words Britain can be outvoted unless it assembles a big enough minority of like-minded allies to block a decision. The Single European Act and Maastricht treaty (the first agreed by Baroness Thatcher; the second by John Major) expanded the areas in which majority votes can be taken and thus weakened the British veto. However, decisions in a few areas still have to be taken unanimously: all 12 countries have to agree; thus all 12 have a veto. The areas include foreign affairs, taxation and justice.

That's one kind of veto. What about the other two?

Any constitutional changes to the EU treaties - to make the EU more federal, or (Euro-sceptics note) less federal - have to be agreed by all 12 members. Thus Britain has a formal veto over constitutional change.

The third kind of veto, the Luxembourg Compromise, does not legally exist; it's a gentleman's agreement between members (disputed by some) that one country can indefinitely block a majority vote in the Council of Ministers if it believes that its 'very important interests' are threatened.

The existence of veto rights, of one kind or another, helps Britain to get its way, or something close to its way, in Brussels. But ultimately the EU is about deal- making. Even the constitutional veto has its limits; the other member states can by- pass Britain as they did by agreeing separately the Social Chapter of the Maastricht treaty or setting up the exchange rate mechanism of the EMS.

The British politician who has done the most to 'weaken' the British veto in the EU is Lady Thatcher, when she signed the Single European Act

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-lichfield-writes-the-first-of-a-1438345.html

therefore became habitual to negotiate on all texts, virtually line by line, until all member States agreed, before taking a decision in Council.
Such a decision-making procedure was grossly inefficient (it took 17 years, for instance, to agree on a directive on the mutual recognition of the qualifications for architects)
Virtually any policy or action could only be the lowest common denominator acceptable to all members
The Commission's right of initiative, and the role of the European Parliament, were reduced

Single European Act, was to extend by ten the number of articles in the treaties which required majority voting

such a change to the treaties, duly ratified by all national parliaments, changed the constitutional framework within which the decisions concerned would be taken, and signified at least an intention to take majority votes more frequently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg_compromise