Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Cheetah]

Nah-uh, not me

Well, you seem to demand that the EU dissolve itself! What concession could possibly be offered for that alternative!?

 

[JohannaK]

Nevermind that Norway has never been in the EU to begin with.

 

[ori]

There will be plenty of things to discuss between the two countries but as had been said above we cannot negotiate trade on our own behalf, the UK will have to negotiate with the EU, where we will have a veto I think.

When we did negotiate on our own we were supplicants.
We wouldn't have much to gain by going back to that situation. Some areas will be worse off unfortunately.

just responding to the bolded part: no the Brexit treaty if it is negotiated within the time alloted to that (2 years after formal declaration of intent to withdraw from the EU according to article 50) is not subject to a veto - instead it requires a "qualified majority" in the council of 55% of member states (minus UK) representing 65% of the EU population (minus UK) plus a majority in the parliament. Now if negotiations fail and the UK exits without a treaty then any treaties afterwards will either be treated as solely impacting EU responsibilities in which case a majority in parliament could be sufficient or it will be a more thorough treaty affecting things like movement of people or the social systems etc., in which case it will need agreement atleast maybe even ratification by every single member state.

 

[Cheetah]

Nevermind that Norway has never been in the EU to begin with.

That's just cause we voted to not have a vote in the EU.

For almost all intents and purposes, we are a non-voting member of the EU.

 

[aelf]

By opening up the UK to the world plan, this plan as pointed out is fantasy and will result in the destruction of manufactoring, doubling of UK deficets.

One can hope. That should be good for skilled immigration in certain sectors.

 

[EnglishEdward]

But from what I gather from Brexiters in this thread, it seems you all demand the EU concedes to no freedom of movement, yet to keep all the other freedoms.

Nah-uh, not me either

There will be plenty of things to discuss between the two countries but as had been said above we cannot negotiate trade on our own behalf, the UK will have to negotiate with the EU, where we will have a veto I think.

When we did negotiate on our own we were supplicants.
We wouldn't have much to gain by going back to that situation. Some areas will be worse off unfortunately.

Understood. Am not suggesting any formal UK/EIRE trade agreement.

 

[EnglishEdward]

We have plenty of car factories inside the UK, and investment is maintained as we are part of the EU. It will be interesting - in the sense of sad - to see how many new models these factories will get to build over the coming years.

Yes, indeed a Japanese and/or German investment strike is a possibility.

There are a number of different ways of dealing with that eventuality,
although most are not palatable to traditional conservative governments.

It appears Leavers pushing for no EU trade agreement have planned for this. By opening up the UK to the world plan, this plan as pointed out is fantasy and will result in the destruction of manufactoring, doubling of UK deficets.

It would be interesting experiment actually to see if the UK did try this.

IMHO the UK is unlikely to double its deficits for the very simple
reason that no one will finance it, which is probably a good thing.

 

[Takhisis]

Nevermind that Norway has never been in the EU to begin with.

Vad fan?

 

[Cheetah]

Nah-uh, not me either

Alright then. But could you try to explain it to me again? What is it the UK wants, and what is it that it is willing to give in return (in your opinion, of course)?

As far as I can tell, the EU would like:
1. Free movement of goods
2. Free movement of capital
3. Freedom to establish and provide services
4. Free movement of persons
5. The UK to pay its share of the costs for the EU. It's a smaller share if one is less bound to the EU, but it's still there.

This is possible both inside and outside the EU, though the latter requires an EEC deal or similar.

And as far as I can tell, Brexit-UK would like the first three ones, but not the 4th or 5th. So that is a concession from the EU. What can the UK offer in return to make the EU agree to that?

 

[Cheetah]

Vad fan?

Parliament declined to join initially, and since then we've had two referendums which ended up around 51%-49% to not join. We're still members in the EEC though, so operate almost completely as if we are full members. We're even best in class (or close to it) on implementing EU directives.

We just don't have a vote in the parliament or a voice and veto in the Council.

 

[Takhisis]

Oh, I know that already. My post was addressed at Monsieur Jean de Catalogne.

 

[Lohrenswald]

Well, you seem to demand that the EU dissolve itself! What concession could possibly be offered for that alternative!?

Well I mean yea, but I also favour Britain cutting off now as a first step

Nevermind that Norway has never been in the EU to begin with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

 

[Cheetah]

Well I mean yea, but I also favour Britain cutting off now as a first step

Why? What did the UK ever do to you?

 

[Lohrenswald]

They joined EU

 

[Cheetah]

Yes, but... how did that hurt you?

 

[Lohrenswald]

yes

5chars

 

[JohannaK]

He just hates the EU intrinsically.

 

[Lexicus]

How did that hurt you?

 

[Lohrenswald]

Okay this is what EU more or less is as I see it

Federal europe - That is working agains national sovereignty and national democracy (which admittedly isn't the greatest thing ever but I contend is more democratic than intranational quatsch), as well as ending what for many countries has been a long and hard struggle for independence.

Neoliberalism - to benefit the upper classes and corporations, at the expense of the working classes. Freedom of movement is not expressed as movement of people, but of labour force.

This also works to change the prevelant thoughts for the worse, I'd say. At the expense of things like compadery, sharing and cooperation, liberal ideas on things like competition, isolationist individualism and a nonsense idea of progress works to make the human experience worse.

Free trade is also a bad thing. It works to hinder the poor, and furthers all the bad things about globalism: environmental, societal etc.

Now sure I am a lazy sod in one of the richest countries, I could probably ignore all this and surf effortlessly and thoughtlessly on top of this the rest of my life, but that is ethically despicable and it would be objectivily better if I killed myself

 

[Lexicus]

Is this the fault of the UK joining the EU or is it the fault of the European capitalists?