Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Kyriakos]

I'm in Sweden. We don't do the Euro-thing either. Had a referendum and all. If there's someplace in the EU that resembles the UK in surprising ways, it's Sweden.

Not anymore

 

[Verbose]

I'm in Sweden. We don't do the Euro-thing either.

Not anymore

Actually still, for yet a while.

A difference between Sweden and the UK is the old adagio of the EU being made up of two kinds of small countries — the ones that have realized it, and the ones that yet have to do so.

But when "myopia" is no longer present, everyone will clearly lose sight of what the EU actually does, ditch the common market and strike out into the brave new world of near-autarchic-national-protectionism. Greece is already there, is it not?

 

[Kyriakos]

Actually still, for yet a while.

A difference between Sweden and the UK is the old adagio of the EU being made up of two kinds of small countries — the ones that have realized it, and the ones that yet have to do so.

But when "myopia" is no longer present, everyone will clearly lose sight of what the EU actually does, ditch the common market and strike out into the brave new world of near-autarchic-national-protectionism. Greece is already there, is it not?

Yes, just imagine if Sweden would remain in one piece if it was forced through the crap we have been subjected to.
Not to mention some lands closer to Weimar.

 

[Arakhor]

Enter 2004 (mass expansion with client microstates and others)

That one was partly the UK's fault, as we were pushing to get lots of other countries signed up to reduce the influence of the other powers. So much for realpolitik, eh?

 

[Takhisis]

Even after the "Thatcher" rebate, the UK remained (after Germany) the second biggest net contributor to the EEC/EC/European Union.
Even then we still paid more than France in most years because the financial shenigans of the city of London inflated GDP
and the UK has much less land than France so the UK benefited less from CAP payments. Now I have never advocated
Leaving because of that net contribution, but I do get a little tired of all this grumbling about the UK's special deal.

Already addressed by others.

The role of force in that is greatly over estimated. Suggest you look at respective population figures and death rates experienced by British from native diseases.
Anyway that is greed motivated capitalism, in the form of the East India Company, for you. Point is that the Indians wanted self determination and they got it.
I could have used other examples such as US colonies, Ireland or the break up of Czeckoslovakia but it wouldn't matter to those determined to ignore history.

What history am I ignoring? Are you going to claim that what is now India wanted to be a part of the British Empire?

You are wrong.

Wales voted to leave the European Union and by a larger margin than England.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612308

854,572 (52.5%) voters in Wales chose to leave the EU, compared with 772,347 (47.5%) supporting Remain.

England and Wales is one single entity.

I'm in Sweden. We don't do the Euro-thing either. Had a referendum and all. If there's someplace in the EU that resembles the UK in surprising ways, it's Sweden.

You even have a neighbour with a blue and white flag with a cross on it that professes to hate your guts, drinks a lot and sometimes admits to speaking your language.

 

[innonimatu]

Isn't that what the common market was, anyway, barring the tax rebates imposed on a helpless Britain by the EU during Thatcher's tenure?

If the common market of the 1980s was what we had today, we'd not be seeing multiple ongoing disasters in Europe.

 

[Takhisis]

Blame the rebates then?

(on a more serious note, I agree with your sentiment about the EU also having done not-insignificant amounts of harm and being against the doctrine of Brusselian infallibility)

 

[FriendlyFire]

Yes, just imagine if Sweden would remain in one piece if it was forced through the crap we have been subjected to.
Not to mention some lands closer to Weimar.

People in Sweden actually pay taxes and their government isnt the second most corrupt EU Nation. Sweden is the third least corrupt in the world ????
Dont worry when the UK pioneers the way out of the EU, it will open up a path for other countries to also leave the EU. (or be forced out from the EU kicking and screaming)

I have to agree that the expansion of the EU into the Balkans was a huge mistake. For all involved
But hindsight is 20-20. Immigration control would be easier, euro would be more stable, and a smaller EU would be more efficent

 

[Takhisis]

I have to agree that the expansion of the EU into the Balkans was a huge mistake.

Regardless of your ninjutsu-based edit, the question remains: cui bono?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Regardless of your ninjutsu-based edit, the question remains: cui bono?

France wanted to break the power of the so call Germany block by adding in more members, over the objections of said Germans
Though there was also a cold war aspect to that decision, EC recommend a ten year per-assention period which was overruled

 

[Takhisis]

So the entity created to prevent any further disasters such as those caused mainly by France and Germany trying to gain ascendancy over one another is almost fatally weakened by… the struggle between France and Germany trying to gain ascendancy over one another. XD

 

[FriendlyFire]

So the entity created to prevent any further disasters such as those caused mainly by France and Germany trying to gain ascendancy over one another is almost fatally weakened by… the struggle between France and Germany trying to gain ascendancy over one another. XD

Better economic & political warfare then Bismark's actual warfare
And I suggest that the Germans be allowed to Final solution the Greek problem to release the pent up genetic need for waging actual war. All this repressed pent up violence will eventually come out explosively (probably onto Poland). France blocked the Germans whom wanted to punish Greece for cooking their books. Eventually something is very bad is going to happen

 

[JohannaK]

Your thinking is monstruous. I am sorry but there is no other adjective I can think of for someone who predicts open warfare or so much worse for no clear reason at all.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

Well, according an ICM poll for the Guardian, it appears we Brits are pretty much behind Mrs May’s stance on the EU negotiations.
And not many want a second referendum.

From The Guardian news feed:

First people were told that Brexit negotiations are starting soon and were then asked which of these three options they would prefer.

UK leaving, regardless of what happens: 53%
Parliament to decide whether the UK leaves, based on the outcome of negotiations: 12%
A second referendum to let people decide, based on the outcome of the negotiations: 26%
Don’t know: 9%

Then people were asked what should happen if the UK and the EU failed to reach an agreement in the time allowed for the Brexit talks (two years). They were given two choices.

End talks and leave without a deal: 49%
Postpone or suspend the UK’s exit from the EU: 33%
Don’t know: 18%

Then people were asked which of these two options they thought was best.

Leaving the EU without a trade deal: 63%
Leaving the EU with a bad trade deal: 8%
Don’t know: 29%

Finally, people were told that, if May is offered a bad Brexit deal by the EU, she has threatened to retaliate by cutting business taxes to encourage businesses to move to the UK, or changing “the basis of Britain’s economic model” as she puts it. They were asked if May was right or wrong to do this.

Right: 59%
Wrong: 18%
Don’t know: 23%


https://www.theguardian.com/politic...sile-test-failure-says-top-tory-politics-live

 

[Flying Pig]

The second question seems odd to me - if it's representative, then something like one in four Remain voters have changed their minds completely. It's possible that people voted for 'Remain' but feel strongly that the result should be respected, though.

 

[Kyriakos]

I don't like May, but given how the Ewe works it is rather logical to threaten with counter-measures cause that is the only thing the eulords understand anyway.
That said, as noted, this all may (May?) be for naught if Italy's or France coming election result is anti-Eu.

 

[Gigaz]

I don't think it's wise for May to threaten the EU. You can threaten people when you're clearly more powerful and if you're really willing to make good on the threat. Everyone knows that Europe can hurt Britain much more than vice versa. She should try begging and dealing behind closed doors.

 

[Flying Pig]

It's all negotiation at the moment, and there's a lot going on which we don't see. I wouldn't take anything said in public at face value at this stage.

 

[innonimatu]

Well, according an ICM poll for the Guardian, it appears we Brits are pretty much behind Mrs May’s stance on the EU negotiations.
And not many want a second referendum.

From The Guardian news feed:

Those Guardian guys must be really pissed with the results from the poll. I'm not really surprised, it's becoming an "us vs. them" situation.

As for the EU being more powerful, it's not. It'll break apart, and the UK can hasten it now that matters at home are nearly sorted out. It was very wise to hold the scottish referendum before the EU one.
Spain has yet to deal with its internal problems. So must Italy. France is not going to have an europhile (or germanophile) president, that much we can guess now. The main east european countries are flatly refusing to embrace the main german tool of hegemony (the euro). The ECB has managed to create an insane real estate bubble that is pricing people out of housing in the main european cities (to be fair, the UK also did that), and its "print money for the banks" policy utterly fails at improving the lives of the vast majority of the population. Immigration tensions are simmering and schengen is all but gone. Really, even the UK alone could break apart the EU, if it set to it. With the new US administration joining in the game... the zombie is on borrowed time.

 

[JohannaK]

Whatever Spain's internal problems are, literally nobody is going to ant to leave the EU. In Spain, that is.