Is Donald Trump Done for?

They really couldn't, because they never had enough control. The only way to get a wall spending bill through the senate was to attach either cuts or revenues to make it "budget neutral," or get democrat support to reach sixty votes. None of the Republicans in the senate can afford to be on record for gutting programs that their base relies on to live, nor can they be on record for raising taxes.
So why did he force a battle on something he couldn't win on, at best draw on?
Presumably he realises at some point he has to deliver or Ann Coulter and the other loonies will be unhappy.
Is he just delaying the moment?

I realise that with some of his base he doesn't have to win to score but failure to deliver and blame it on the establishment will only go so far.
 
So why did he force a battle on something he couldn't win on, at best draw on?
Presumably he realises at some point he has to deliver or Ann Coulter and the other loonies will be unhappy.
Is he just delaying the moment?

I realise that with some of his base he doesn't have to win to score but failure to deliver and blame it on the establishment will only go so far.

I suspect that he is so out of touch with reality that he didn't know he was going to lose. Remember the day he sat there with television cameras rolling and said "I'll shut it down, it's my shutdown, I'll do it," Shumer and Pelosi's jaws hit the floor and they had to restrain themselves from laughing out loud, and McConnell looked like he had just seen the ghost of Richard Nixon haunting the White House? By all reports McConnell plus basically everyone in the White House staff tried to get across to him that he was in trouble because getting blamed for the pending shutdown was going to hurt, and it wasn't until he saw it on Fox and Friends that he acknowledged that wasn't a stupendous victory...and he NEVER considered that it might have been an actual mistake. So the whole catastrophe came as a complete surprise to him.
 
They really couldn't, because they never had enough control. The only way to get a wall spending bill through the senate was to attach either cuts or revenues to make it "budget neutral," or get democrat support to reach sixty votes. None of the Republicans in the senate can afford to be on record for gutting programs that their base relies on to live, nor can they be on record for raising taxes.

Do you often phrase reskins as disagreement?

It's habit, isn't it. When there are people not worth associating with, that is. Social leprosy, whatnot.
 
Do you often phrase reskins as disagreement?

It's habit, isn't it. When there are people not worth associating with, that is. Social leprosy, whatnot.

Apparently not, since that wasn't a disagreement.

Do you often charge in from nowhere without really considering whether what you are saying makes any sense?
 
So why did he force a battle on something he couldn't win on, at best draw on?
Presumably he realises at some point he has to deliver or Ann Coulter and the other loonies will be unhappy.
Is he just delaying the moment?

I realise that with some of his base he doesn't have to win to score but failure to deliver and blame it on the establishment will only go so far.
He might just really be that stupid and/or ignorant.
 
He might just really be that stupid and/or ignorant.

I've always assumed that whatever his other limitations (and we know they are many) he had some basic tactical sense but I will admit it seems increasingly likely I was just plain wrong about that.
 
They really couldn't, because they never had enough control. The only way to get a wall spending bill through the senate was to attach either cuts or revenues to make it "budget neutral," or get democrat support to reach sixty votes. None of the Republicans in the senate can afford to be on record for gutting programs that their base relies on to live, nor can they be on record for raising taxes.

I asked google and I received:

Even if Trump had managed to unite Republicans by appealing to their party loyalty (or by threatening retribution), the border wall’s low approval ratings meant that congressional Democrats were hardly tempted to lend their support without significant policy concessions. Republicans could have used the budget reconciliation process to push wall funding through Congress, thereby making it impossible for the Democrats to filibuster it. But Republican leaders were limited by Senate rules to one reconciliation bill per yearly budget resolution — and they had planned to use those vehicles for their own top legislative priorities: repealing the Affordable Care Act and enacting tax reform.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...s-controlled-congress/?utm_term=.ff8d166f0c01

The wall just wasn't one of Mitch's priorities, yay. :) I figure Trump wants immigration to remain an issue, getting his wall would put it on the back burner.
 
Looks like Trump had to cave after all.

3-week temporary end to shutdown. TSA's getting paid.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...or-his-border-wall/ar-BBSK0Cl?ocid=spartandhp

Yes, not a penny for the wall, but I'm sure Trump sees it as a victory.

There's really no way, I think, that even he can frame this as a victory. Right now he's getting burned from all sides - Coulter is calling him the biggest wimp in the history of the GOP (supplanting HW in her mind). The bill that will pass is the one that sailed through the Senate unanimously back in December, and the one the Dems have passed through Congress three times this month. He shut the government down for a month for literally no gain. In that time his approval rating, as well as that of the Republican party have fallen precipitously. He and the Republican leadership will try (and are certainly trying now) to play this off as a good compromise and progress towards "actual negotiation," but they all know this was a colossal cock-up.

Meanwhile, let's all take a moment to acknowledge that this was a major victory for organized labor. There was, realistically, no chance of this extension happening, essentially, until the assorted airline workers' unions started talking about a general strike, and the FAA started shutting down airports and grounding flights. One can only imagine the sort of hell Trump would have caught had those strikes actually happened and, for instance, the NFL had to consider postponing the Superbowl. Strikes work and unions work, people! It's the only thing those in power will actually respond to.

Now, the real question is what happens on the week of 2/14. Trump in his Rose Garden address seemed, once again, to float the idea of declaring a National Emergency to get the wall built if he still can't bring the Dems to the table. However, as has already been noted, there's no way that declaration goes even 12 hours without getting slapped with an immediate injunction from a Circuit Court, and, however craven 5/9ths of SCOTUS is to the Republican agenda, they at least have the foresight to recognize that investing the Presidency with that kind of power can only backfire on them catastrophically the instant the Dems get one of their own into the White House.

The Wall is simply not worth going to the wall over in the eyes of the Republican leadership when, say, a future President Harris or Warren or what have you could use that same language and declare a National Emergency on unwanted pregnancies and use eminent domain declarations and emergency funding to start building abortion centers en masse, or declare a national healthcare emergency and start implementing some sort of ad hoc universal healthcare initiative. They already saw the way Bush's expansion of presidential authority opened the door for Obama, I doubt they're cool with letting something like that happen again.

But then again, this is a more conservative version of the SCOTUS that made the Citizens United ruling, so who knows.
 
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I've always assumed that whatever his other limitations (and we know they are many) he had some basic tactical sense but I will admit it seems increasingly likely I was just plain wrong about that.
For a long time I've been saying that he's a schoolyard bully: cunning, ruthless and self-important but devoid of any actual high-level rational or emotional intelligence.
 
Awww But i wanted the shutdown to last until at least April or May
Oh well at least Mueller has indicted Stone and is looking into the NRA
 
The wall just wasn't one of Mitch's priorities, yay. :) I figure Trump wants immigration to remain an issue, getting his wall would put it on the back burner.

Google left out that the other stipulation on using reconciliation is that it has to be budget neutral, at worst. That's what I was saying about pushing the big budget wall through that way would require either cuts or a tax hike to balance it, and that wasn't possible.


There's really no way, I think, that even he can frame this as a victory.

The way he frames it as a victory is by having the government shut down again in February with that shutdown commonly seen as "Trump did everything they wanted and the dirty Democrats still won't negotiate!!!!" Make no mistake, the next shutdown is coming and the GOP is already hitting high gear to lay the groundwork for it. McConnell is pouring "this is what the Democrats promised to get the deal" into any willing ear, and the fact that it is absolutely nothing like what Shumer is saying doesn't mean that it won't be believed.

That makes a direct swap from a shutdown he claimed that was killing him and the GOP into a shutdown that the Democrats get blamed for. That's not only something he could frame as a win, that actually is a win. The Democrats need to figure out, right screwing now, how to overcome the GOP messaging.
 
Apparently not, since that wasn't a disagreement.

Do you often charge in from nowhere without really considering whether what you are saying makes any sense?

Eh whatever, I still read that differently, but benefit of the doubt if you say so.

Must be the company you keep. Social leprosy, whatnot. :mischief:
 
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Google left out that the other stipulation on using reconciliation is that it has to be budget neutral, at worst. That's what I was saying about pushing the big budget wall through that way would require either cuts or a tax hike to balance it, and that wasn't possible.

The WaPo article didn't mention that but I doubt the tax cuts were budget neutral. Or maybe thats just a different matter where the normal rules dont apply.
 
The WaPo article didn't mention that but I doubt the tax cuts were budget neutral. Or maybe thats just a different matter where the normal rules dont apply.

They were actually. That's why the tax cuts for the non millionaires had to not only roll back, but turn into tax hikes after a period of time. The Republican theory is basically a gaming of the system. Make the tax cut temporary so it can be budget neutral and get jammed through, then dare the democrats to vote against "keeping the cuts in place" when the bill comes due.
 
Trump reduced his impeachment chances with the temporary spending bill. In that sense, it was a victory for him. Although not so much a victory as it was cutting his losses.
 
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