Is Elon Musk a fraud?

[EvaDK]

I'm just glad I'm not one of the persons obliged to show up at work at Musk's office and pretend that I like my boss; day after day; year after year.
I must be extremely exhausting to put up with him.

 

[aelf]

There are multiple facets to his history to look at here; PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, Twitter/social media.

PayPal his coding was so bad they literally would replace his work all the time without letting him know.

Tesla he has a deal in place where the actual founders can’t call themselves the founders and only Elon can. His biggest claim is probably in this realm; he did get electric vehicles out the door before anyone else. I think this might be more a criticism of auto companies (particularly American ones) who continuously lag greatly behind others in safety, efficiency, and technology. Almost 90% of new cars sold in Norway in 2022 were electric. They were not all Tesla obviously.

SpaceX is probably technically the most impressive company of his, but everyone involved said Elon’s existence is essentially carefully managed by the real people in charge there. Whenever he comes by a literal group of employees gives him tours, tries to suggest that new things they want to implement were actually Elon’s ideas, try to keep him away from badgering the engineers too hard. It’s kind of like how there were handlers for Trump when he was president to try to limit the damage he could do.

Then twitter/social media. Obviously he is in way over his head with how to run twitter, but the most eye opening part to me of the last few years is how his entire twitter feed is full of economic predictions, and claims about history or science that are all incredibly, overwhelmingly false. He has an incredibly deep ineptitude about a variety of subjects.

That said, I’m a firm believer in intelligence both being obviously infinite (I guess I should say knowledge) and also deeply difficult to quantify. The world’s best plumber and the world’s best astrophysicist might have little in common in their special intelligence but both are deeply smart individuals within their fields.

Which is why it’s especially shocking that I think that Elon has displayed himself so badly over the decades (and this is ignoring the rampant racism and sexism at his workplaces) that he is, to answer the poll, a total fraud AND a deeply, deeply, truly stupid human. He has popped onto numerous live twitter spaces recently and hearing him talk with engineers and programmers live, without handlers and time to curate his response, it shows you the depths of how little he knows. I’ve listened to several and he has absolutely no clue what he is talking about, and you can literally hear him as he tries to conjure some bs story live (he is surprisingly bad at BSing too). Even his most sycophantic suck ups in those spaces have lost faith in him when he arrogantly lashes out at someone and calls people names repeatedly when it’s he himself who knows nothing.

I award Elon the score of 0/100.

I'm just glad I'm not one of the persons obliged to show up at work at Musk's office and pretend that I like my boss; day after day; year after year.
I must be extremely exhausting to put up with him.

I just left a workplace like that, and I realised I have no ability to manage such bosses

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

who is he defrauding besides thousands of average Americans telling them they ought to own luxury cars, that keep getting more and more expensive, that no independent mechanic can fix b/c the specs are secret, and whose every single model had a recall at some point?
I mean I guess you could call that fraud.

 

[Kyriakos]

But by now it is obvious to all that paying three times more than what it was worth, was the least of the problems it created for Musk, who moved on to lose twice that in a few months.
So, no, I don't see him as a good investor either - and his inventions are getting all the more scrutinized (recall the Tesla cargo truck? It's another fraud and the stock price continues to fall since the - third? - announcement it will be released "this year").

Another huge problem for him is that a few more of the world's richest people have significant stock in Tesla, which means they will pressure him to sod off:

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Tesla is way farther down than that now

 

[Kyriakos]

Tesla is way farther down than that now

^^
He will run it to the absolute ground, if they don't get rid of him somehow.
I wonder what his plan is, maybe to pump and dump (pump is over, obviously) and retire with a very small fraction of what he was once worth? Seems the only realistic option - but trials may follow.

 

[stinkubus]

who is he defrauding besides thousands of average Americans telling them they ought to own luxury cars, that keep getting more and more expensive, that no independent mechanic can fix b/c the specs are secret, and whose every single model had a recall at some point?
I mean I guess you could call that fraud.

He's the CEO of multiple publicly traded companies. He has fiduciary responsibilities to his stockholders. Not to mention there are multiple pension funds in this country who are neck deep in TSLA.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Stock price reflects shareholder mood. It does not impact production or customers. The still closed factory in Shanghai is important because it will impact sales. Shareholders are upset because they have lost value, not because of anything connected to the cars.

 

[EvaDK]

Tesla stock has been extremely overvalued for years by the market. It was only a question of time before a correction would be made. Remember that stock prices are often an expression of future expectations and to which degree the company in question can deliver on those expectations - or not.

 

[Farm Boy]

He's a subsidized tool. Made in California. Tinny. Thin. Gilded.

An idiot magnet for fiat. So politically a liability.

 

[Kyriakos]

Sigh. Ok, anyone learning stuff is excellent, of course. But does Elon actually have the credentials to teach kids? He has no degree in science or math, not has he (which wouldn't be enough either) shown he is some learned autodidact.
"First principles" - you don't say. Of course it is good to be able to build your proof from the bottom up. We didn't need Elon to present this, nor is it rare.

What can one say. He lost 200 billion dollars in less than a year. Worst of all is that it was easy to see this would happen, even in this thread it was argued he would be forced to keep selling Tesla stock (tanking it).
So, in a weird way, I feel a bit sorry for him, but of course he did all this to himself.

 

[Samson]

Sigh. Ok, anyone learning stuff is excellent, of course. But does Elon actually have the credentials to teach kids? He has no degree in science or math, not has he (which wouldn't be enough either) shown he is some learned autodidact.
"First principles" - you don't say. Of course it is good to be able to build your proof from the bottom up. We didn't need Elon to present this, nor is it rare.

What can one say. He lost 200 billion dollars in less than a year. Worst of all is that it was easy to see this would happen, even in this thread it was argued he would be forced to keep selling Tesla stock (tanking it).
So, in a weird way, I feel a bit sorry for him, but of course he did all this to himself.

He can teach people how to be a fraud. It is a growth industry ATM.

 

[Kyriakos]

He can teach people how to be a fraud. It is a growth industry ATM.

+1

 

[Angst]

does Elon actually have the credentials to teach kids?

no, but that hasn't stopped him, nor has it stopped a lot of people
*cough prageru cough*

 

[Plains-Cow]

What's Elon Musk's real name?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Musk's loss is mostly through a drop in Tesla stock price. If the stock goes up in 2023, he will regain some/all of that loss. Will you praise him? And btw, he still has, what, $50 billion? A $100 billion? A paper loss of $200 billion will not change his life.

 

[Gorbles]

Musk's loss is mostly through a drop in Tesla stock price.

And from pulling back the veil on his apparent genius as he wades into every argument publicly on Twitter

 

[Kyriakos]

And from pulling back the veil on his apparent genius as he wades into every argument publicly on Twitter

He should at least had been able to realize he'd have to drive his own stock to the dirt, to buy Twitter; now he looks like a defeated man, and as you said he invited massive public scrutiny which simply mangled his image => more loss will follow.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Tesla stock has been extremely overvalued for years by the market. It was only a question of time before a correction would be made. Remember that stock prices are often an expression of future expectations and to which degree the company in question can deliver on those expectations - or not.

Tesla market cap was $1240 billion 12 months ago and $350 billion now.

Ford market cap was $100 billion 12 months ago and $49 billion now.

General Motors market cap was $94 billion 12 months ago and $50 billion now.


Musk picked arguably the best time to sell shares for $40 billion in cash.

 

[Fippy]

Now the million dollar question: who here really cares about Musk losing or gaining some billions. $ or braincells will not be specified.
a) we all do
b) hmm could be a dozen
c) only 3
d) nobody but we have fun anyways

I take d) and prolly drop down to 500 bucks.