Is Having Sex in Front of your Children Child Abuse?
- Thread starter BvBPL
- Start date
Lexicus
Deity
Probably depends. In the case linked in the OP it may be.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Depends on the context. If it happened once by accident, nobody cares, but if it happens all the time it could be a sign that it's not a good place for a child to be growing up.
There is nothing wrong with children learning about the human condition and sexuality at a young age, in fact it is probably healthy to start them early, but having sex in front of them is just weird, man. If it's happening because the family is poor and can only afford a 1 room apartment, then yeah, I bet that sort of thing happens often in the 3rd world and it's not a sign of abuse at all. But if it happens in America to a child on a regular basis, it's probably a sign that wherever this child is living is not a fit place for children to be growing up, and CPS would probably agree.
There is nothing wrong with children learning about the human condition and sexuality at a young age, in fact it is probably healthy to start them early, but having sex in front of them is just weird, man. If it's happening because the family is poor and can only afford a 1 room apartment, then yeah, I bet that sort of thing happens often in the 3rd world and it's not a sign of abuse at all. But if it happens in America to a child on a regular basis, it's probably a sign that wherever this child is living is not a fit place for children to be growing up, and CPS would probably agree.
I guess I can think of situations where it may be, but I cannot see how in a general sense it could be. For most of history, and for a very large number of people currently, people could/can not afford separate rooms for their children, so unless you want to stick with 1 child then sex in front of them is kind of required.
No, no, no & no.
I do not see this. Either it is child abuse, in which case you should not do it even if you only have one room, you should wait for them to be asleep or out or something. Or it is not child abuse and it should be up to the parents how they want to introduce this subject to their children.
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
I'm curious if warpus would care to expand upon how a behavior can be non-abusive in one context and abusive in another where the apparent difference is economic development.
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
While the linked case is illustrative, I would rather focus on the general idea than an individual case. In the case if the item I linked, my Spidey-Sense suggests there's more going on that just having sex in front of the children.
Tigranes
Armenian
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This particular case is clear. Offender herself feels sorry. I don't know what else here is up for the discussion even in the general case, because then you would need to come up with some questionable prosecution scenario which has happened in real life.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
In defense of Warpus, the interaction of child abuse and human sexuality (so long as it's not being sexual *at* the children, which is a whole other ball game) has, by its very nature, a strong cultural component, reflecting a society's taboos and views of sexuality, and expectation of a child's development. In an agrarian society where people live in a single room and around animals who do breed, children will be expected to know from a young age about sex, and to witness it (certainly between animals, if nothing else!). Their expected development will include knowing about and witnessing such things. So witnessing their parents have sex won't cause their development to deviate *too* much from the norm.
In a society that lives much further away from breeding animals, with much higher levels of privacy, on the other hand, the expectation would be that children would witness sexual activities much later in life, so in that case finding out about sex early may result in more abnormal development, which might make it child abuse. In addition, expectations of privacy in sex vs having witnessed as a kid may result in an "abnormal" view of sexuality that make it harder for them to operate within that society.
Hence, child abuse in one case, not child abuse in the other.
In a society that lives much further away from breeding animals, with much higher levels of privacy, on the other hand, the expectation would be that children would witness sexual activities much later in life, so in that case finding out about sex early may result in more abnormal development, which might make it child abuse. In addition, expectations of privacy in sex vs having witnessed as a kid may result in an "abnormal" view of sexuality that make it harder for them to operate within that society.
Hence, child abuse in one case, not child abuse in the other.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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Probably not. It's probably significantly more damaging to a child's ability to operate within society to be unable to afford to live in a place with a competitive school than it is to be confronted with the reality that one's parents hump.
I find the circumstances in the link objectionable and not a goodness, but hey, I'm a prude. I think most of pop music videos are not a particular goodness for adults much less children. Maybe there's an angle to the intoxication that should be criminal, maybe not. Is it illegal for both parents home with 3 children to get simultaneously drunk? That's also potentially impairing to their ability to care for their children and the impairment probably lasts longer than a session of coitus.
I find the circumstances in the link objectionable and not a goodness, but hey, I'm a prude. I think most of pop music videos are not a particular goodness for adults much less children. Maybe there's an angle to the intoxication that should be criminal, maybe not. Is it illegal for both parents home with 3 children to get simultaneously drunk? That's also potentially impairing to their ability to care for their children and the impairment probably lasts longer than a session of coitus.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Look, if you're having sex in front of your children every other day, that's a sign that wherever you're living and the living conditions there are probably sort of crappy for child rearing. I mean, there is not a private place where you can get it on? Why are children in the room? It brings up many questions.
If it happens once, by accident, or necessity, it could be a blip, whereas a reoccuring theme could be a sign of deeper issues with the household.
Like I said, if it's happening in some mud hut in Zimbabwe, that's just a part of life there, but if it's happening in the U.S., the best country on the planet to live in, then there's obviously issues in the household and children *probably* shouldn't be there.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Traitor.
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
@Oda I'm not sure the concern about varying cultural norms is suffice to make something child abuse. Nations like the US and Canada have systems structured to accommodate non-normative behavior from minority cultures. Nor do I think that the distance between animal breeding and the population is a suffice t explanation (although it is a good point). If it were than standards would differ if it was a farming community or if the family raised dogs for breeding. Better I think is to assess abuse on whether it is harmful to the child rather than whether it is outside of local norms.
Edit: ppl are welcome to suggests other standards for determining abuse. I don't think that cultural variance is sifficent, particularly in the US and Canada, but I would encourage ppl to make that argument if they wish.
@warpus the explication of lack of privacy seems to be more focused on housing sufficiency than child abuse. You seem to presume, and correct me if I am wrong here, that children seeing their parents have sex is a harm per se, but one that could not be controlled against in Zimbabwe. However, you don't explain exactly why seeing parents have sex is harmful.
Edit: ppl are welcome to suggests other standards for determining abuse. I don't think that cultural variance is sifficent, particularly in the US and Canada, but I would encourage ppl to make that argument if they wish.
@warpus the explication of lack of privacy seems to be more focused on housing sufficiency than child abuse. You seem to presume, and correct me if I am wrong here, that children seeing their parents have sex is a harm per se, but one that could not be controlled against in Zimbabwe. However, you don't explain exactly why seeing parents have sex is harmful.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
We try to have standards set to accomodate different things, yes but many of our ideals (of what is traumatic for children, and what children' development should be like) are still rooted in our own cultures. It's only when cases emerge that challenge those cultural norms that we start the (often slow) process of changing them.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I don't think you understand my position at all. So let's see how else I can say the same thing I've been saying:
Parents regularly having sex in front of their children in a country with the biggest economy on the planet and some of the highest living standards on the planet is a hint that they are not fit parents or that the housing situation is not adequate to support proper child rearing.
You usually have sex in private; if you are allowing your children to watch for whatever reason, then that to me would indicate that there are likely issues in the situation that would need to be investigated to see if the children are properly cared for. To me this situation is a hint that the parents just don't care or that the living situation is not up to par.
In far less developed countries the same red flags do not come up in such a situation because the level of development is crap compared to the biggest economy on earth and a country with such high standards of living.
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
Would it be fair to say that you think it isn't abusive per se but tends to indicate poor parenting?
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