Is it bad to be patriotic?

[Leoreth]

Yeah. I'm really tired of this "Nolan turned Batman into a realistic action movie" praise you hear everywhere. Sure, the setting has been updated into a more believable context, but that doesn't change that it's still a superhero movie.

Part of this genre is the trope where the hero gets beaten, then has to overcome some sort of crisis and return to save the day. You can clad this narrative in various degrees of realism but the most important aspect of the buildup to the climax is the dramatic aspect, not the demonstration that the hero has had enough training to actually do what he has to do. His resolve to save the day is much more important than his actual ability to do so. Again, from a narrative point of view.

 

[MobBoss]

The bible is the ultimate source of truth and it says that pride is a sin.

Well thats what your simple english language translation says. However, the actual truth of the matter is a bit deeper than that since english isnt the original language of the bible.

But we both know you're simply being a troll here, so i'll be content knowing i'm right and simply move on. No more troll snacks for you!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Do you think the info I posted on pride in the Bible is accurate, or do you disagree with my first-hit-on-google source?

 

[Mise]

Well thats what your simple english language translation says. However, the actual truth of the matter is a bit deeper than that since english isnt the original language of the bible.

But we both know you're simply being a troll here, so i'll be content knowing i'm right and simply move on. No more troll snacks for you!

I'm just telling you what the Bible says. If you think that quoting the Bible and spreading its message is trolling then you should take it up with Jesus.

 

[MobBoss]

I'm just telling you what the Bible says. If you think that quoting the Bible and spreading its message is trolling then you should take it up with Jesus.

I'm sure we both will. God bless you Mise.

 

[warpus]

Why don't English language versions elaborate what is meant by "pride" then, if the meaning is not to be taken as "pride" ?

It's written in English, it says pride, people are going to think it means pride. If it means something else, the text should have been translated better.

 

[Flying Pig]

If pride prevents you from realising that you are in no way worthy of divine forgiveness, and no better than the least of your fellow human beings, then it's sinful. At least, that's my interpretation of Christianity.

 

[Leoreth]

Why don't English language versions elaborate what is meant by "pride" then, if the meaning is not to be taken as "pride" ?

It's written in English, it says pride, people are going to think it means pride. If it means something else, the text should have been translated better.

The thing is, we need as many ambiguous translations as possible, to wriggle out of further potential situations where the text could become inconvenient to certain peoples' personal beliefs.

 

[Traitorfish]

If pride prevents you from realising that you are in no way worthy of divine forgiveness, and no better than the least of your fellow human beings, then it's sinful. At least, that's my interpretation of Christianity.

The "in no way worthy of divine forgiveness" bit is pretty distinctly Lutheran. Most traditions accept salvation through works, or even stress it heavily, and it's possible to find arguments for both views in the New Testament.

 

[Flying Pig]

I did add the disclaimer that this is the FP school of Christianity - as I see it, everybody is redeemed through God's mercy, but nobody deserves to be - in the final reckoning, 'all have sinned, and all fall short of the glory of God' (Romans 3:23, but I had to look that up). The reason Christians live according to divine commandment is out of gratitude for this mercy and a desire to follow a good way of life, rather than out of fear and a desire to save themselves. I fully understand, of couse, that not everybody sees t that way.

 

[El_Machinae]

If your patriotism tempts you to throw punches or riot if your favorite football team, then it's bad. Patriotism is basically an enhanced version of having a favorite sports team.

 

[MobBoss]

Why don't English language versions elaborate what is meant by "pride" then, if the meaning is not to be taken as "pride" ?

It's written in English, it says pride, people are going to think it means pride. If it means something else, the text should have been translated better.

I dont disagree. It's simply because the english language doesnt have as specific a meaning for various root words in ancient Hebrew and Greek so many words are simply offered as a lump sum situation. Take, for example, all the confusion of murder vs kill in the ten commandments. As you can find in a concordance there are a variety of words with different meanings for these words biblically, and some even overlap while others dont. While many English versions of the bible may use 'kill' most jews will recognize the root word used as describing felony type murder, not just 'to kill'.

The bible has a lot of these types of translational issues, so if you really want to study the bible more seriously, pick up a concordance and see what the specific root word is used in a scripture and what it actually meant originally.

 

[Formaldehyde]

What an odd notion that a god only thought in Hebrew or Greek because those were the languages that the Bible was originally written in by man. That the scholars who translated it into English were so incompetent that someone with no training in Greek or Hebrew could do a better job translating it than they could do.

 

[MobBoss]

What an odd notion that a god only thought in Hebrew or Greek because those were the languages that the Bible was originally written in by man. That the scholars who translated it into English were so incompetent that someone with no training in Greek or Hebrew could do a better job translating it than they could do.

I didnt say God only thought in Hewbrew or Greek, but that does happen to be the original languages the bible was recorded in. Assuming that the actual words used in this languages have specific meaning (they do) then it stands to reason that referring to these origingal words makes biblical sense. Especially given the fact that there are numerous translations even in English (presumably all writting by those scholars you refer to) each often having conflicting interpretation. Again, like how some bible translations use 'murder' while others use 'kill'.

I never alleged anyone was incompetent - I merely encouraged people to do their own research. I mean I know for you if its not on wiki its not true, but some of us actually like to dig a little deeper....

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And digging a little deeper I found out that pride is ok when it's in others being humble. So that supports the notion not all pride is bad.

But that doesn't support the notion that being proud of your country is not bad, only if that pride originates from being proud how humble your country presents itself in certain circumstances.

Now I did dug a little deeper to find this out.

 

[MobBoss]

And digging a little deeper I found out that pride is ok when it's in others being humble. So that supports the notion not all pride is bad.

And this was merely my point all along. There is something significantly different in overweening haughty pride in self or whatever, and a 'hey, way to go' type of pride one might feel over a variety of situations. The point being God is the source of all things, and if said pride overrides that, then you have a problem. But thats true in a wide variety of biblical issues.

Now I did dug a little deeper to find this out.

Good for you!

 

[Formaldehyde]

And digging a little deeper I found out that pride is ok when it's in others being humble. So that supports the notion not all pride is bad.

But that doesn't support the notion that being proud of your country is not bad, only if that pride originates from being proud how humble your country presents itself in certain circumstances.

This is particularly true with excessive nationalism to the point of even questioning others' "patriotism".

This is hardly the "rah rah support your team" harmless patriotism. It is the insidious form which is responsible for so much fear mongering, vilification, and hatred of others for merely having different opinions or being from other regions with different cultures. It is exactly the sort of "pride" which is considered to be a sin.

 

[MobBoss]

This is particularly true with excessive nationalism to the point of even questioning others' "patriotism".

Form, dont be butthurt because people point out how much you dont like the USA. Just embrace it. I mean its your own comments in this forum that gets you that rep. Its not like you are going to change anytime soon, is it?

 

[Peck of Arabia]

a quick search of the mirriam-webster website suggests that patriotism is love of and devotion to your country, not pride in.

Given this, can patriotism please be taken off the sin list and something more fitting be put in its place?

 

[Flying Pig]

Yeah. I'm really tired of this "Nolan turned Batman into a realistic action movie" praise you hear everywhere. Sure, the setting has been updated into a more believable context, but that doesn't change that it's still a superhero movie.

Part of this genre is the trope where the hero gets beaten, then has to overcome some sort of crisis and return to save the day. You can clad this narrative in various degrees of realism but the most important aspect of the buildup to the climax is the dramatic aspect, not the demonstration that the hero has had enough training to actually do what he has to do. His resolve to save the day is much more important than his actual ability to do so. Again, from a narrative point of view.

I thought The Dark Knight Rises would have worked far better as a tragedy, with the film ending at

Spoiler :

The revealation that Bruce Wayne fixed the ejector seat, but before the revealation that he used it, meaning that he chose to die because he wanted to 'give everything' to his cause