IS

[innonimatu]

I read today that half of the pre-war Syrian population is currently dead or in exile. It may not be an exaggeration to say that this is the closest to the physical destruction of a country that has happened in world history.

There's always Paraguay.

And though mainstream media avoids reporting on Libya (because hey, who cares about those libyans everybody was so eager to "liberate" just 4 years ago) it seems that country was also successfully destroyed. But it was worth it - worth a few tens of billions...

 

[Gucumatz]

Any time after a revolution there is going to be instability, people look at Libya and expect it to be perfect simply because of said aerial intervention - which frankly is naive. Said intervention however allowed moderates to actually have a foothold in post-G Libya. Without said intervention, the various scattered moderate militias would have been crushed/beaten back by the Libyans to a much higher degree leaving hardliners with even more control of Libya. The groups that wouldn't have broken as much against the Libyan forces would have been the hardliners

In essence, Libya would have been similar to Syria. Which isn't to say Libya is perfect, far from it - but it at least has an out that it can follow through even going through such difficult times. If we had intervened in Syria early oon, countless moderate rebel groups wouldn't have since been destroyed or annihilated. That isn't to say the the hardline extremists wouldn't still exist, but it would leave Syria in a position where the people would get to have a legitimate say in its future.

Look at the American revolution for example - some French did denounce its intervention as a failure because of our weak central state after the revolution and some of the farmers rebellions which followed in between our articles of confederation and the eventual constitution.

 

[Tigranes]

Sick ISIS terrorists have burned four men to death in their latest graphic video

The brutal militant group released the video of the four Iraqis' deaths after accusing them of spying for rival Shiite militia.

The men are seen stating their names and alleged crimes on camera before being chained around their wrists and ankles and suspended in the air.

A line of fuel has been poured underneath the blindfolded men and masked militants set fire to their captives in the Iraq’s western Anbar province. The gruesome video shows slow motion footage as the fire burns up the fuel and the men are agonizingly burnt to death, the Independent reports.

 

[r16]

recycling is a good thing . Hence the Municipality has long been distributing cardboard bins and plastic bags which you fill with stuff . And recyclying is work for many who otherwise lack all kinds of qualifications . You see them on the streets , going through trash cans . Yesterday was odd in the sense that all those people keep to the streets , they will not enter your garden . It's only the Municipality dump truck that comes once a week when your gate will be opened , the guy will take the plastic bag and leave a replacement by the cardboard bin . These two kids , obviously of Syrian refugees , going through the bag and picking their choice , plastic bottles and the like and leaving all the newspapers and the rest . Well , this ain't America ; where people are shot for trespassing ... Apart from the look one gave me which tempts me so much to make a reference to that cat in boots in the Shrek franchise , neither ı speak Arabic , nor they are likely to know Turkish ... So , not an opportunity of a talk on the merits of conventions either .

the house next door belongs to a family that seriously works hard in collecting the same . You can see the man pushing a cart loaded to the top , returning home , finally at midnight . And you will see him up in the morning sorting them out . As such he tends to have a low opinion of people who pilfer through the lot . Had my breakfast , wondering whether the kids went in there , too . They hadn't . From the window of the house ı could see one had found a toy car about the size of my thumb and ı could hear his vrooms . Half an hour later , out to buy a newspaper (collecting coupons again) , ı saw them again . One was in some garden throwing plastic bottles one by one out of the bag . To be collected by the other to put in the cart . The other was busy elsewhere though , climbing out of a large size trashcan . These kids are just about 4 feet tall afterall , they can't reach down like their fathers could . Who probably bought the business , carts and a right to roam the streets from people who used to do it before ... The auto loving kid pulls the cart with Ferrari like sound effects , too .

contrary to what you might think , there are no Syrian refugees in Turkey ; all those people are either our brothers on guests . Now that refugee is a legal term that actually entitles them to stuff that invariably costs money . Remembering the good times and the sanguine planning that constructed some spiffy camp and filled it with 50 000 people , with a cap of 100 000 declared . And pavements painted in honour of Angelina Jolie . Who as some UN represantative would visit , give high marks to Ankara and this would be proof for Ankara's good intentions and hip hip hooray , the conquest of Syria . Jolie , being an Hollywood bimbo , naturally was dumb enough to think a member of G-20 would manage one camp . Now there are 2 millions or so of people who have to be integrated . Which invariably costs money . There were still high hopes that Jolie's latest visit would lead to something , with she taking some thousands of Yezidis with her . Instead we have this trek of people walking to Europe . With Germany promising to take nearly a million ; as a PR effort to prove they are not the monsters that killed the Jews and the Slavs as an industrial effort . And then paying Victor Urban to stop them at the borders by all means necessary . Including rants on how the Hungarians stopped the Muslim hordes and saved the Christian Europe . ı kept my tongue , as one might have noticed , during Ankara's offers to save lives by airlifting all those people to any European country that would want them . And finding no takers ... Merely reinforces the stereotype or something that ı am so negative . But then Ankara likes it too . All those Syrians with expectations should go , leaving Sunni brothers with a penchant for fighting to be integrated . It's not yet a decade when such people refused Opposition MPs entry to a camp where they were assembling explosives for blowing up Syrians , nor of the night they opened fire on buses to and from Antakya to declare their ownership of the area ...

and then there are learned newspaper articles on why we should accept the Syrians . With an interview or two about the businessmen who belie the belief that all Syrians are beggars . Indeed not all Syrian businessmen are of the type that stole the industrial plant of Halep by nuts and bolts and sold here for start up capital .


as if begging is an acceptable thing for anyone . This summer there was this girl of maybe 13 , no doubt born as a citizen of this country , with her faultless Turkish . In a fairer world her chief agony would have been taunting by her classmates of "But you are so Black!" Now the convention is enough money to buy a loaf of bread . Which in my town makes one Turkish Lira , naturally in the form of this coin . Having seen her from a distance with her aversion to ring the doors ı produced two ; with dignity suffering with each step taken in a street where she doesn't belong much in evidence . Then appeared this boy , maybe 10 , grabbing the two coins from her . Who wears a short pants so oversize that he has to keep an hand by the waist and yet it fails utterly with his backside just about in full sight . None of Victoria's Secret models could dare being photographed that low a cut . And a second girl maybe 11 , with anger or maybe anguish in her eyes , asking for a third coin . Now that it's obvious the boy is already overmuscled for them . The fourth kid remained silent , ı don't even remember his/her gender . Must because of so small an age . Since he/she kept out of that 5 minutes of argument on how to divide two Turkish liras between three . The boy with an hand on the waist and the other hand clutching the coins . This is not a fair world and her chief agony seems to be the fact that her brother (?) would argue against a fair share with two hands . For a moment ı thought this was a test arranged by Lord Vader to see how slow ı was with the lightsaber , considering he would have an idea on how fast ı was with the draw ... With all the Orientalist cliches happening right in front of my eyes . Then thought otherwise , because of the scene . So inhuman for the supposed "actors" .


off-topic ? Hell no . Merely an entry to the fact that the world has created millions of displaced people 'cause they are brave enough to start a war and not brave enough to fight themselves .

 

[r16]

yeah , Barrack Hussein calls Esad a child murdering tyrant , without any reference to the fact that he , POTUS , is a spineless jerk . Who should have shut up or put up long ago . As if it was not the Anglosphere who clearly implied there was no way but to fight to the bitter end , with Kaddafi's demise much "enjoyed" while referencing the options ; with news that the SAS was after the Esad family , straight for liquidation . The oft reported vacuum bombs , the barrel bombs are merely imitations of what RAF used to lay down in German cities ... And the whole world already knows the entire game is about polishing seperatist credibility/reputation so that the whole world will find heart to unite and do the necessary thing about our extermination or something . And poor Barack Hussein , he sez Chemical Weapons is the redline and it happenz and Barack Hussein haz no clue on why his redline is so pink . ı seriously wonder what would he be like if we were something instead of a disgraceful two-bit country .

as if it's not the same America who had its think tanks write books on how the Islamists would take over the country , misbehave and bring about America's displeasure . All leading up to a war in space , between us and the US , one which we lose , without much bloodshed , since the satellites we could send up in Chinese rockets could not carry people and stuff . All to be completed by 2030 ... So that the Counter-revolution must be allowed to succeed ? Yeah , must be the same set of brightest minds who came with the idea that some Black guy in some white building would do equally fine ... You know the site that banned me for my declaration and stuff that ı would be the last Turk in Turkey . They would keep all the nonsense ı would write and omit all the good stuff . It still irks me that my promise that we would give the US a flakfield anytime , in the proper Battlestar Galactica way , was deemed necessary to be deleted . A site reputedly under daily control of the German intelligence , too . Weird ? Not as much as the one where Yours Idiotly announced that ray shielding was good enough to stop 14 kilos of metal at tank gun speed . ı see in some American science magazine that's hardly good enough with regards to that wonder weapon on Zumwalt or something ... Of course , it's not true . It can't be ! Oh yeah , what would His Spineless Majesties do if we were something instead of a smudge in Christian Fundamentalist mindset ? It's just a shame of the greatest kind that the Civil War in Syria has to go on , even when all the Western aims about realising a "Northern Syria" has been achieved but the New Turkey has to be propped up because it looks possible that a Civil War in Turkey can be averted in the nick of time when the smarties smart under an election defeat and start self-doubting only to discover that they are NOT the chosen people or something of Allah ...

northern Syria is of course the flatlands where the seperatists rule and govern , instead of mountains there's not much to govern . With learning stuff in modern governance and obviously protected by the West , they are supposed to form the critical mass where the Kurds will see it transparently obvious that they should rise up against the tyranny of Turks . 'Cause the frigging West can not find the heart to do this utterly easy business of smashing us to the ground ...

ı never believed the seperatist movement was for the rights of the oppressed and Democracy and the like , even if it's a nice smokescreen to hide behind and to recruit support . And warm bodies , considering it's a line of business with a kinda high turnout of dead cold ones . Nor the suffering was a thing that made the victims nobler than those who didn't yet suffer . There was this Easterner - in a story ı must have mentioned a couple of times already . Was walking home and there he was , going the opposite way ... And laughing at my pitiful existance is not based on ethnicity . Oh yeah , he was laughing at the fool and his face fell off . When he saw my shoes ... Of the brand that the heroic variety of his people wear in the mountains to ambush the evil Turkish military . Supposedly strongly built and one my late father bought at a discount at some weekly bazaar . Which naturally was wet whenever ı wore it , now that it took me years to discover the gash under it . Not good enough for seperatists ? Failed the post production tests ? Send it "West" for sale to the Turks . And mind you , my late father would have no time to read newspapers' economy pages to see which companies had brisk business . And being born in some mountain village into poverty where things had to last like forever , he had this thing for shoes with thick underneaths . "Democracy" for Kurds means utter fright of certain shoe brands , for Kurds know they can be found gutted out if they don't show "respect" for the wearer .

indeed why the Russian intervention in Syria hurts pretty bad . Despite all the assurances of Putin that they are in the same boat and the joint command center they have established in Baghdad will treat the Kurds as a seperate entity . Indeed why France has joined the good fight against the creatures of ISIL , bombing Syria for the first time ... You know , Americans stopped the Turkish Air Force operations against ISIL on the grounds that there are far too many planes in the air , like bombing ISIL to hell . Nobody sees much evidence that the ISIL is being bombed to hell , but anyhow ... But ı can surely tell you that Turkish F-16s bombing Jihadists doesn't fit in with the narrative that will be put to use when it's our turn to be bombed . Actually exactly why Ankara is trying to bomb ISIL , but anyhow ... And all under the manly leadership of Hollande ; in some state function here as he was visiting Turkey a few years back , he was so busy trying to kiss a famous singer who's also a music teacher or something in a "French" school . And this professor feels ill and passes out . As people flock around the guy -with Hollande in the forefront acting up as if interested and he is seen texting . In turns out to his mistress or something to assure he wasn't after scoring ; to the tune that one should not believe the newsreels . We learn this from the mistress who was texted . As she discovered she was cheated so wrote a book about it ... Yeah , it falls to manly Hollande to challenge them Russkies as it turns out David Cameron is so busy with some pig ... Oh poor Anglosphere , you need Frenchies to deal with them Russkies ?

challenging the Russian challenge is also at the root of the reports that the stupid Russians can not shoot straight anyhow ; the strategy site mentions in the very first air raid the Russians mistakenly killed 20 Syrian Goverment troops . From all that we learn Russians are merely after establishing an Alawistan , so that our smarties can still fancy conquering Halep as compensation for the loss of Diyarbakır . There is a reason for all those long faces on TV debates , with all those lovers of Democracy , Human Rights , brotherhood between all kinds of Muslims and Muslim Brotherhood itself trying hard to find solace that Barack Hussein whom they put into Whitey Home can not dare to perform an act that would be defined as a kinda involuntary sexual act in less than formal uses of Turkish language ... As if it is not the Russian resolve , the early deployments froze Ankara cold , as if it's not merely an election campaign that there is this "massive" and "effective" operations against the seperatists ... It's Russians to blame for the bloodshed in Turkey , for it was crystal clear that they were to deploy a couple of thousands of troops to Syria and Halep was to be forever behind the next hill ... And of course it's the New Turkey that put that Kenyan to the Whitey Home , if the Jew supported parties didn't loose the elections in Turkey and stuff , how could a Muslim could win the Presidential Elections in Washington ? Oh yeah , this is exactly what America has been pumping to the Turkish scene over the years in a bid to condition us Turks to accept our glorious future .

pity that the guys themselves start to believe . Remember my fandom for Alias , me waiting till 2 in the morning for it begin ? How nice of the State Channel to replace the show with a documentary on the "Gamechangers" , all those people who supposedly changed the fate of this country ... And once they had a documentary on giving up bad habits , too ... ı think ı will still go the DVD way ...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Recycling is not unambiguously a good thing. The costs and benefits may depend on what is being recycled. Many products can be recycled, but the energy costs of doing so are significantly higher than the costs of creating entirely new products and locking the old stuff away somewhere.

Generally it is good to recycle metals, but not most plastics. Recycling paper contributes to global warming, while burying the paper and making new sheets from trees (or better yet hemp) grown specifically for that purpose is an effective carbon sink.

 

[Flying Pig]

It's good to recycle plastics if the alternative is leaving them where they can kill plants and animals, though.

 

[Gary Childress]

It's good to recycle plastics if the alternative is leaving them where they can kill plants and animals, though.

I don't know. Leaving a plastic drink bottle laying on the ground (for example) is probably more an aesthetic eyesore kind of thing than a real danger to plants or animals. Sort of like ship wrecks in the ocean, they eventually get taken over by nature and just become another habitat.

 

[Flying Pig]

Drinks bottles perhaps - bags less so, and a layer of drinks bottles on a pond much less so.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Generally one would compare recycling verses disposal in a landfill, not recycling verses littering.

 

[Gary Childress]

I was replying to Flying Pig's comment above about plastic killing plants and animals. Technicallly even a large trash pile can become a habitat for nature. While I don't encourage littering or creating waste piles in the middle of national parks, I think it is probably mostly for reasons of aesthetics and concern for human safety that we frown on such things. Nature has a way of recycling our junk too.

 

[Tigranes]

Being able to read both Russian and American media leaves an impression of two different events. Russian Media claims that IS was targeted by Russian planes, while American sources talk about attacking regions without known IS presence. One of the groups het by the very first Russian airstrike was actually trained by CIA and had sophisticated TOW anti-tank American missiles.

 

[Gary Childress]

Being able to read both Russian and American media leaves an impression of two different events. Russian Media claims that IS was targeted by Russian planes, while American sources talk about attacking regions without known IS presence. One of the groups het by the very first Russian airstrike was actually trained by CIA and had sophisticated TOW anti-tank American missiles.

In perpetual warfare, the first casualty long ago was truth. Who knows what the powers that be are doing.

 

[Agent327]

Meanwhile, the people on the ground in Syria claim the attacks weren't directed against IS, but against the Syrian opposition; also, that only civilians were killed. Nothing new here, really, except the Russian claim they actually were targeting IS. Seeing as Russia is the only power still supporting the crumbling Assad regime, it's hardly surprising they will basically target any opposition to Assad.

Anyway, apparently the US and Russia will be discussing Russia's attacks today - attacks that previously had not been conferred with the anti-IS coalition. So possibly some progress may be expected, depending on the outcome of these talks.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

In other words, the free-for-all has turned into an all-out melee with practically everyone against everyone else.

Good job world!

 

[Tigranes]

Seeing as Russia is the only power still supporting the crumbling Assad regime, it's hardly surprising they will basically target any opposition to Assad.

Well, Iran is a regional power and also supports Assad. But things do not look good at all. Both Russian and US side do not coordinate their respective Airforce operations, which may result in some honest mistake, and that may not end well for the world.

 

[Agent327]

In other words, the free-for-all has turned into an all-out melee with practically everyone against everyone else.

Well, Iran is a regional power and also supports Assad. But things do not look good at all. Both Russian and US side do not coordinate their respective Airforce operations, which may result in some honest mistake, and that may not end well for the world.

Not quite: Russia, Iran and Iraq have agreed to share information in combating IS. But IS is just one of Assad's multiple problems. And so far Russia's military aid has been used to target not IS, but civilians in opposition-held territory. Russia is simply continuing its policy of supporting Assad no matter what, but doing so now under the guise of 'combating IS'. Iraq, however, has a direct interest in combating IS, which controls part of its territory. Iran is not supporting Assad, but has an interest in keeping Iraq weak - yet it is vehemently opposed to IS as well. The only party combating each and everyone is IS. So things are not as simple as some people would like them to be.

 

[Tigranes]

Iran is not supporting Assad

Iran and Syria are close strategic allies, and Iran has provided significant support for Syrian Government in the Syrian Civil War, including logistical, technical and financial support, as well as training and some combat troops. Iran sees the survival of the Syrian government as being crucial to its regional interests. Iran's supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, was reported in September 2011 to be vocally in favor of the Syrian government. Iranian security and intelligence services are advising and assisting the Syrian military in order to preserve Bashar al-Assad's hold on power. Those efforts include training, technical support, combat troops. By December 2013 Iran was thought to have approximately 10,000 operatives in Syria. In 2014, coinciding with the peace talks at Geneva II, Iran has stepped up support for Syrian President Assad. Syrian Opposition Interim Minister of Finance and Economy claims that the "Iranian government has given more than 15 billion dollars" to Syria.

I would rather continue this discussion here in Syrian thread.

 

[Agent327]

Yes, I forgot about Hezbollah as well. The situation in Syria is indeed highly complicated. But I doubt it is fair to say Iran supports Assad's hold on power, as he doesn't seem to have any. The Assad regime currently is just one of the various groups trying to gain control of Syria. Meanwhile the population suffers.

 

[r16]

yours idiotly makes history or something or whatever . Both newspapers ı had were firmly declaring Alias was on 01.00 . And the Eyecandy was on , with a kinda sweet discussion on Cengiz , the Emperor of Mongols . Who , alas , wasn't Turkish but had lots of Turks under him . And no , 10% of the world do not descend from him . That's related to Down Syndrome , with parents of the 1800s consoled by the fact that it had to be some Great Emperor's genes that caused that baby . Interesting thing seems it was always the mother , and never the father , who had her great great great great great grandmother raped by Cengiz . And tons of commentary of how Mevlana was a Mongol spy . Adding the Selçuks had it coming when they asked for Mongol protection in the 1240 or so . And just of course , it was Baybars , some Turk with Eyptian powerbase that finally stopped the Mongol hordes ...

and gloriously it becomes 01.00 and you can almost smell them twitching in their studios looking for something , anything but Alias . Finally finding a documentary of Football fandom in Brazil . Why , cool ! Especially for a guy who can neither play football , nor make an easy and quick distinction between Macarena and Marecana ... As said , ı can always find some DVD set , but the Turkish State Channel will never cover the conquest of Halep and the Conquerors' Prayers in the biggest mosque left standing .

the Russians are indeed bombing in total , ISIL and all . Some Turkoman leader was on TV last night declaring Russians drop missiles 6 meters long . Which do not go off in general , presumably because the US handler doesn't want to polish Russian credit too much . That's why Su-27s never miss when they fire , but only when air to ground ...

and lovely consternation in the faces of smarties almost everywhere , in the news Iranian ground troops are arriving in North to drive Turkish proxies out . Except those smartest smarties who find heart in the beating of a pro-opposition journo . The pro-goverment journo who had written that they could the pro-opposition journo crushed like a fly declares it's a sad thing ... After promising life in prison to other critics .