pigswill
fly (one day)
Our fraternal German comrades will swop archery for aesthetics and meditation (or monotheism?). If we're all medieval do we get stability bonus for vassalage? If so, is it worth the anarchy (apart from CG2 longbows).
JFC-3: Ping Pong
- Thread starter Jet
- Start date
Yeah, why would you even want feudalism when you don't even have archery to build archers, much less longbows?
Shush, you
@ pigswill: Go for the best archery trade you can, I reckon. From Jet's earlier post, Vassalage gives +3 stability during the Medieval era - but the anarchy gives a permanent -3, so it's not worth it unless we're making some other beneficial civic change at the same time.
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
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Well I'm just glad that
a) we're in Caste System
b) someone let our military city grow into two points of unhappiness
Take what trade you can get but watch out for Germany. Germany is usually the top space competitor, followed by England.
pigswill
fly (one day)
So is it worth the permanent -3 for anarchy (balanced in the short term by +3 for vassalage) to swop into slavery and vassalage (assuming we can get both in 1 turn)?
LukeUeda-Sarson
Prince
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Can we have a screen shot please so us observers can see how things are progressing? I hadn't realized you were so close to Chinggis-time...
Cheers, Luke
Cheers, Luke
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
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Your guess is as good as mine. My guess is that we should switch to Vassalage but stay in Caste.
Why do you say that Jet? The (temporary) bonus from Vassalage is completely eliminated by the (permanent) penalty for anarchy. Not to mention the temporary anarchy penalty that will push us to collapsing for several turns.
It's not like we have a big army that's costing us maintenance, so Vassalage's "economy" bonus is wasted anyway. Unless it helps in some other way I'm not seeing?
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
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Well, our no-army free ride is almost over. I think we'll be attacked by Mongolia at least once and probably by Japan at least once.
Since we have the Colosseum the +2 XP is less valuable, but it does put Colosseum units 1 XP away from the third promotion. That would be helpful when absorbing an attack, or conceivably we might get Tibet barbs to attack some Longbows for the last point.
There is one more stability bonus that I forgot to document, although Harrier's Guide does mention it: +3 stability for running HR and Vassalage at the same time.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Some screenshots:
Some thoughts:
We can research archery in 1 turn so why give away valuable techs?
Our economic instability may be due to running a high number of specialists which contribute significantly to our research but don't get added to our GNP. Paradoxically in order to strengthen our economic stability we may have to weaken our economy (gold and beaker production) by working tiles instead of running specialists.
We've got a GE hanging around. IIRC we haven't had a golden age yet, so if we wait ten turns for Macau to pop its next GP we could think about a GA and civix change then.
Our power is pretty low compared to Japan (and when Mongolia spawns compared to them as well) so no military is not really an option.
Some thoughts:
We can research archery in 1 turn so why give away valuable techs?
Our economic instability may be due to running a high number of specialists which contribute significantly to our research but don't get added to our GNP. Paradoxically in order to strengthen our economic stability we may have to weaken our economy (gold and beaker production) by working tiles instead of running specialists.
We've got a GE hanging around. IIRC we haven't had a golden age yet, so if we wait ten turns for Macau to pop its next GP we could think about a GA and civix change then.
Our power is pretty low compared to Japan (and when Mongolia spawns compared to them as well) so no military is not really an option.
LukeUeda-Sarson
Prince
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A bit off-topic, but why is it on the power rating graph in RFC (I can't think back to when I played normal Civ...) you can only see a fraction of the Civs you are in contact with?
Cheers, Luke
Cheers, Luke
pigswill
fly (one day)
Since introducing espionage in BTS you have to accumulate sufficient EPs against a civ before you can see graphs/demographics. We've had contact with Japan and Khmer for a while so we've built up the EPs against them but not against our new found friends from further away.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Not getting much feedback so I'll play a few turns and start us on the slippery slope.
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
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ok
pigswill said:
To save the turn.
There are trades available which are not "giving away valuable techs".
I think cottages are OK except in the city that could produce a great person next, and as long as all mines are worked.
Since it's early and one turn of anarchy, I'd risk the Philosophy bulb if it's a Scientist. If it's an Engineer we won't have the choice.
pigswill
fly (one day)
That was..... interesting.
T0. 1010ad.
Deal with Japan. Our bananas for 3gpt.
Dealwith Khmer. Our pig for 1gpt.
Rearrange tiles, sack scientists except in Hangzhou (GS/GA due in 11).
Make a trade:
Research 60% -20gpt. CS in 9.
T1. 1020ad.
Macau. Temple>LB.
Stability unchanged.
T2.1030
Beijing Spear>LB.
A random event:
Lose 216 beakers towards CS.
T3. 1040.
Tokugawa calls round:
Axe and cat land near Hangcheng.
Sury has enough on his hands....
On the other hand stability improves (-25).
T4. 1050ad.
Sally asks us to declare on Hammy. Decline.
Japenese triremes start turning up.
Macau LB>LB.
Hangcheng being slowly bombarded.
T5. 1060ad.
Hangzhou blockaded (and clams pillaged).
Mandalay. CH>rax.
Stability still improving (-23).
Beijing's fish pillaged.
Make a deal with Hammy:
Cashflow problems: research 50% -3gpt. CS in 6.
T6. 1070ad.
Hammy asks us to declare on Sally. Decline.
Sury asks us to adopt OR:
Consider it. Decide we can't afford anarchy atm. Decline.
A scout gains experience in Australia.
Beijing LB>Trireme.
T7. 1080ad.
Nothing much.
T8 1090ad.
Mine gets pillaged near Hangcheng. But its no longer our problem:
Economy deteriorates abruptly as does stability (-31).
Beijing Trireme>LB.
T9. 1100ad.
Trireme gets sunk defending.
Macau LB>LB.
Good Luck!
T0. 1010ad.
Deal with Japan. Our bananas for 3gpt.
Dealwith Khmer. Our pig for 1gpt.
Rearrange tiles, sack scientists except in Hangzhou (GS/GA due in 11).
Make a trade:
Research 60% -20gpt. CS in 9.
T1. 1020ad.
Macau. Temple>LB.
Stability unchanged.
T2.1030
Beijing Spear>LB.
A random event:
Lose 216 beakers towards CS.
T3. 1040.
Tokugawa calls round:
Axe and cat land near Hangcheng.
Sury has enough on his hands....
On the other hand stability improves (-25).
T4. 1050ad.
Sally asks us to declare on Hammy. Decline.
Japenese triremes start turning up.
Macau LB>LB.
Hangcheng being slowly bombarded.
T5. 1060ad.
Hangzhou blockaded (and clams pillaged).
Mandalay. CH>rax.
Stability still improving (-23).
Beijing's fish pillaged.
Make a deal with Hammy:
Cashflow problems: research 50% -3gpt. CS in 6.
T6. 1070ad.
Hammy asks us to declare on Sally. Decline.
Sury asks us to adopt OR:
Consider it. Decide we can't afford anarchy atm. Decline.
A scout gains experience in Australia.
Beijing LB>Trireme.
T7. 1080ad.
Nothing much.
T8 1090ad.
Mine gets pillaged near Hangcheng. But its no longer our problem:
Economy deteriorates abruptly as does stability (-31).
Beijing Trireme>LB.
T9. 1100ad.
Trireme gets sunk defending.
Macau LB>LB.
Good Luck!
